Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.
One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.
All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.
FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?
Do you really expect me to do that?
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No way I can read all this thread, so I am going to echo that. There are millions of us, getting ready for church this morning, who cannot hold our noses, (as we have done in the past), and cast our vote for Rudy. I can understand the pragmatic argument, but it fails when I have to discard my principles.
I only hope that the power in the GOP can understand that.
I'm thrilled that this site is finally getting back to the basics and holding people to a higher standard. The half-truths and attacks on conservatives have been too much as of late.
I think Gore will do a pretty good job as President, better than any of the GOP field at the current time.
“Up yours ***wipe.”
I’m pleased to see that you’re with us in the fight Mr. Robinson.
“I’m usually last out and chide them for giving up, but tonight I’ll give them a pass since it’s 5am here on the east coast.”
The same time it was here in Michigan..lol
I am just trying to point out that in the real world, the next POTUS will have to get 60 million plus votes to win and persuasion is the only way to win POTUS.
I am terrified of the “hate America blame America” phonies of victimhood getting in permanent power.
If you want to SPLIT the Party WIDE OPEN,,,
a liberal like JulieAnnie is JUST THE MAN FOR THE JOB!!!!
->I am just trying to point out that in the real world, the next POTUS will have to get 60 million plus votes to win and persuasion is the only way to win POTUS.
Are you saying that you can’t persuade people to do the right thing?
Well he did change things, one of the worst Democrats in history was elected with barely 40% of the the PV. (the lowest PV and still elected, in our nation’s history)
The country IS AND HAS changed drastically, but not in the way you think. Conservatives are now a very unpopular minority and the for the Democrats, the election in ‘08 is theirs to lose.
The entire image of Conservatism has become unappealing to the American Public. There are many reasons why, and in order to understand what it is that has made this trend occur, we must first look at what image we are projecting to the public, and why we are being seen in such a bad way.
The idea that we must lose in ‘08 to rebuild strength for the future, is like giving Iraq to Al-Qaeda so they’ll stop attacking our troops in Baghdad.
If people here truly fear Socialism as much as I do, they should not fear Rudy Giuliani, he is no socialist. What they should fear is what damage another Democrat controlled government will do to this country in even one short term. All this in-fighting and stark division that is strangling the GOP will be the main reason the Democrats take this country into Socialism.
Not sure I understand your point. You don't need to go with a left of center moderate like Rudy to garner those 60 million votes. Most people live their lives in a conservative fashion; we just need to remind them of that fact and the votes will come.
The Republican Party has parted ways with conservative values. They do not support us and will not for sometime to come. They view they way to power as appealing to to middle -- the events last November prove them wrong but they are not changing their path. I have withdrawn ALL of my support for them as a result of this foolish behavior. When they come back to conservative values I will support them again. Many support Rudy out of a fear of Hillary I see no difference in a Hillary administration or a Rudy one from a practical point of view.
You claimed the dems got nothing accomplished in 1992. I note an enormous tax increase. That’s a pretty big accomplishment, perhaps the biggest item conservatives would fight against in thinking about Congress.
The fact that it was peeled back in 2000 (not even close to ‘repealed’) and that Bush Sr signed a tax increase has nothing to do with it.
If the choice is Rudy or Hillary with a dem congress, the latter will be far worse.
I was more pro-Rudy a couple of months ago than I am today, mostly due to some good reasoning made here on FR by anti-Rudy folks. I’d much prefer an electable conservative than Rudy.
But if Rudy wins the nomination, I’d vote for him in a heartbeat over any of the leading dems. I’m just baffled why anyone else would stubbornly permit a democrat to win the White House in these times.
I live in CT too and voted for Lieberman in 2006. Why? Because of his support for the war, because Lamont is terrifying, because Schlesinger was hapless and had zero chance. Did I know Lieberman was a big-time liberal? Yes. But I believe I was making a smart political decision given the choices.
Who do you vote for in 2006?
It remains to be seen if there are "millions" of you.
Personally, I doubt it, but that's why we have primaries. If you are correct, it will be impossible for Giuliani to be nominated and you won't have to worry.
I rather think that the numbers of hard-core social conservatives who won't vote for Giuliani, even in the primaries, is small enough not to matter.
But, as they say, that's why they play the games.
Let the games begin.
But instead of rebuilding that image, and the trust of the mainstream public, they chose to display and coddle the very same vile and hate towards Giuliani that they accuse the Democrats of.
If they don’t like a candidate, simply support the one they like, instead of making a direct effort to attack and degrade another, like Giuliani.
We condemned the Democrats for this same tactic in ‘04. They had no real candidate to support, or real and logical ideas to make things better. All they could do was attack George Bush. They were consumed by it. They lost because of it, although narrowly.
The same thing is happening to the GOP this time around. And in the mean time , the clock is ticking and no real direction or unity has been established. This IS the real problem. Not Giuliani.
???
You three are nothing of the sort.
It's a shame you're being maligned on a site that tauts itself, among other things, as "pro God".
And it's equally shameful that our nation's founders are often brought into this discussion when the greatest of that group, Thomas Jefferson, wholly welcomed dissent in political debate.
I know you three, and most other Giuliani supporters are not "liberals", and I can understand, though not agree with, your reasoning in supporting the man's candidacy. It's just a shame you have to be the objects of insults and scurrilous attacks only for daring to speak your mind(s).
Bull. Need an example? California conservatives held their noses and elected Pete Wilson, twice. Especially in the second instance, we worked our butts off and saved an unpopular governor. The reciprocation? After defeating RINO Dick Riordan by 14 points in the primary, the California GOP turned around and shafted Bill Simon in 2002 with 1.6 million registered Republicans failing to show up at the polls.
Even Carl Rove has said it outwardly that "conservatives have no place to go." Hence the slide under his leadership. People will only take so much of that crap.
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