Posted on 03/01/2007 8:30:44 PM PST by blasater1960
Animal sacrifices should be renewed on the Temple Mount, a member of the radical Sanhedrin organization told Ynetnews.
In ancient Israel and Judea, the Sanhedrin served as the highest court in the land, and was made up of 71 top judges. Now, a group of îåãòä
fringe rabbis say they have reformed the group, although the organization has received no recognition from Israel's official religious authorities.
"In the Torah there are around 200 commandments dealing with animal sacrifices," said Rabbi Dov Stein, of the Sanhedrin organization. "The Torah of Israel demands animal sacrifices. When the people of Israel were in the Diaspora, it couldn’t be done. But now, there is the supreme institution, the Sanhedrin, made up of experts, and it can be done. The new Sanhedrin, like the old, will educate the people of Israel on how to keep and safeguard the Torah."
(Excerpt) Read more at ynetnews.com ...
Prayer took the place of sacrifice when the Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans. If and when a Third Temple is established I could relate to animal sacrifice so long as it's kosher and distributed as food, which was always the case.
I'm sorry, but this is not necessary at all.
If I didn't know better...I'd suspect people who cannot read Christian scripture--even to debate it-- were merely afraid to read what Jewish eye-witnesses to Jesus' resurrection wrote in the New Testament--as it might shake their self-righteous delusions. Go ahead, rely on your own law-keeping, and see where it will get you.
"The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26" 'Go to this people and say,
"You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."
27For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'
28"Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"
(New Covenant book of Acts 28:25-28)
You said -- "That's the problem with the Jewish interpretation, Jesus wasn't going to be an earthly ruler and that's what they were looking for."
Well, He will be that earthly ruler, this time, when He returns to earth. So, the Jews are going to get, this time around, what they were looking for the last time around.
And this time around, the Jews who are present will all accept Him as the Messiah. A worthwhile passage is the following --
Romans 11:11-36
11 I say then, have they ["the Jews"] stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “ Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Verse 25 makes it plain -- "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ..."
Regards,
Star Traveler
Isaiah 9: should read
For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
This is G-d talking about King Hezekiah.
The other two are too week to even derive meaningful theology from in my opinion. One of the rules for proper exegesis being that week and obscure passages dont dominate the strong and clear. Sorry, when you correctly translate the Hebrew, Jesus is not there in the Tanach. Only by forcing him there by isogesis.
No sorry! It is a customary expression in Judaism to express thanking G-d...
When Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was torn in two, signifying that the Temple was no longer holy. Further, Jesus said he was the Temple when he said "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." You are requiring God to follow the rules he imposed on Man. He doesn't have to.
Jesus is clearly the passover lamb in Revelations, when John sees the "Lion of the tribe of Judah" in the form of a "lamb standing as if slain." That sacrifice was done once and for all. However, the fact that that Jesus remains in the form of a slaughtered lamb and yet alive shows that his sacrifice is continuing for all of us.
Finally. it was my understanding that in a passover sacrifice, the lamb is slaughtered and then the blood is poured out on the altar. Jesus was both the lamb and the priest, the blood was not taken to the altar until Jesus ascended into heaven. At that point his sacrifice was complete.
You were saying to Zionist Conspirator -- "If I didn't know better...I'd suspect people who cannot read Christian scripture--even to debate it-- were merely afraid to read what Jewish eye-witnesses to Jesus' resurrection wrote in the New Testament--as it might shake their self-righteous delusions. Go ahead, rely on your own law-keeping, and see where it will get you."
Well, what I posted in Post #123 pretty much says where he's coming from. The Apostle Paul makes that clear (in Romans 11:11-36).
BUT, what we are seeing as a "new movement" (harking back to the days of the Jerusalem Church) -- is the Jewish Messianic Movement (coming in only the last 30 years or so), proclaiming the Messiah of the Jewish Apostles. This portends the *soon* coming days of verse 15 in Romans 11. There are not only many in the United States, but also many in Israel.
The word of the coming of the Messiah is getting out..., from the Jews themselves.
As Paul says, can this mean anything less than "life from the dead" (pointing to that time which is soon to arrive).
Regards,
Star Traveler
I am sorry, it's just when you look at the entirety of scripture, it just doesn't add up. John's Revelation is terrific imagery but doesn't make for a good basis for a theological foundation. Also, you assert infallibility to the new testament and I dont. The Temple veil and the resurrection of the dead at the time of the crucification have not been historically verified. I would think that those events would have been widely recorded.
You reject the Gospel accounts as historical. I think that Josephus and Tacitus(contemporary historians of the day) both allude to Jesus. I do not think there are that many written accounts of the period which survive.
My main support for truthfulness of the Gospel accounts is that all of the Apostle's but John (and a lot of other believers as well) were willing to go to their deaths proclaiming them as true rather than recant. If these accounts were fabricated, the Apostle's would have known it. Yet, they died as martyrs.
As to the "blood was not taken to the altar until Jesus ascended into heaven" argument, I concede that this is a bit of theological exposition I read from a scholar, it is not directly stated in the Bible. But it makes sense to me.
I agree that Revelation is clouded with imagery that is difficult to decipher, but I think certain images can be reliably understood. Certainly, it makes sense to see Jesus as the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the one who can open the scroll, etc. The fact that the lion turns out to be a lamb coincides with John's Gospel where Jesus is identifed as the lamb of God. I believe that John wrote both his gospel and Revelations, so the imagery ties together nicely.
If many witnesses testify that events have occurred and one version of understanding the OT contradicts the witnesses and another understanding conforms to the witnesses, which version is true?
"You said -- "That's the problem with the Jewish interpretation, Jesus wasn't going to be an earthly ruler and that's what they were looking for."
Well, He will be that earthly ruler, this time, when He returns to earth. So, the Jews are going to get, this time around, what they were looking for the last time around."
This all very nice but it has what to do with the Messiah that the Jews were looking for when Jesus came to earth? They weren't looking for a servant Messiah but a kingly or a political one to "save" them from the heel of Rome. They also totally ignored the prophetic passages in the Old Testament that described the Messiah.
You said -- "They have reconstituted everything necessary for the sacrifice ritual: the instruments, the apparel, the prayers, the procedures, and the red heiffer."
Sorry, I missed your comment from earlier.
Yes, I've read about that. But, if I understand right, they don't quite have a red heifer that is ritually pure and cermonially clean yet. So, they are still trying. It's *not there* yet...
If you want some reading material about the red heifer, try --
http://www.templeinstitute.org/red_heifer/red_heifer_contents.htm
http://www.templeinstitute.org/archive/red_heifer_born.htm
http://www.bible-prophecy.com/redheifer.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/662602/posts
http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2006/End-Times-Religious22jun06.htm
http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/red-heifer.htm
http://www.ichthys.com/mail-red%20heifer.htm
I won't vouch for the accuracy or authenticity of any of these articles. They're simply interesting reading, that's all...
Regards,
Star Traveler
You said -- "This all very nice but it has what to do with the Messiah that the Jews were looking for when Jesus came to earth? They weren't looking for a servant Messiah but a kingly or a political one to "save" them from the heel of Rome. They also totally ignored the prophetic passages in the Old Testament that described the Messiah."
What it has to do with it -- is that it's ironic that what they were looking for the first time around -- is -- what they will get the second time around. Very ironic indeed.
And that, along with the fact that the Apostle Paul says that *all Israel will be saved* in Romans 11, plus giving the reason for the temporary rejection of the Jews, by God, for the blessing given to the Gentiles.
Yes, all Israel will accept their coming Messiah.
Regards,
Star Traveler
P.S. -- But, what a present day Jew has to be concerned about, even in light of what Paul says in Romans 11 -- is -- if they will make it to that time when the Messiah returns...
And that's something that we all have to be concerned about -- Jew or Gentile. Tonight may be our last night...
This is wonderful news to those of us who are yearning for Christ to come soon. Thanks for posting!
You might want to have a look at this. It's not my Rabbi's site, but he did warn us about the "Sanhedrin," Root and Branch, and others associated with them.
Semicha and Sanhedrin Controversies of the 16th and 21st Centuries
Rabbi Yirmiyohu Kaganoff
(origninally in Yated, USA, 24JUN05)
http://www.sinhedrin.com/files/history/semicha_sanhedrin_controversies.html
I'll explain a little more on that (though I'm not Jewish and am only a new student). Thousands of rules in the Oral Torah have assured that the Torah Scroll (written Torah) is the same since the days of the (13) scrolls of Moses. Other religions are rather more modern and flexible about such things.
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