Posted on 03/01/2007 8:30:44 PM PST by blasater1960
Animal sacrifices should be renewed on the Temple Mount, a member of the radical Sanhedrin organization told Ynetnews.
In ancient Israel and Judea, the Sanhedrin served as the highest court in the land, and was made up of 71 top judges. Now, a group of îåãòä
fringe rabbis say they have reformed the group, although the organization has received no recognition from Israel's official religious authorities.
"In the Torah there are around 200 commandments dealing with animal sacrifices," said Rabbi Dov Stein, of the Sanhedrin organization. "The Torah of Israel demands animal sacrifices. When the people of Israel were in the Diaspora, it couldn’t be done. But now, there is the supreme institution, the Sanhedrin, made up of experts, and it can be done. The new Sanhedrin, like the old, will educate the people of Israel on how to keep and safeguard the Torah."
(Excerpt) Read more at ynetnews.com ...
You said -- "It's that easy huh?"
Well, depending on which side you're on, that is...
But, yeah, the Bible divides the entire world into those two groups. One group encounters Christ at the "Judgement seat of Christ". We see that at 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
This is directed towards the "one group" (the ones who are saved). You'll notice that it says that this judgement is not for judging one's salvation, but rather for how they lived. So, "saved" a Christian may be, but still there is "judgement" to come. However, much better to be in this judgement, than the other one for the other group.
Now, we can see the results of the judgement for the other (of the two groups that the Bible talks about, for purposes of salvation). This group is seen in Revelation 20:11-15.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
By the last verse, we see that this is the "other group" (anyone not found written in the Book of Life; the Bible tells us that Christian's names are written in the Book of Life).
In this group, they are likewise judged according to their deeds. In this case, however, it leads to them being cast into the "lake of fire". And from other references to the lake of fire, we see that this is an eternal place and one that is forever separated from God.
So, while the first group is judged, this is for "rewards" based on what has been done in their life. The salvation part has been accomplished by Jesus' sacrifice. So, salvation doesn't enter into this judgement.
The second group has rejected Jesus' sacrifice, so their eternal destiny is determine according to their deeds and actions in their life. And since the Bible has already made clear (many verses and chapters back) that *no one* can be saved on the basis of their own deeds and actions and the way they have lived their life (since *all are guilty* before God) -- that means that this judgement (the Great White Throne Judgement) results in being cast into the lake of fire as their eternal destination, to be separated from God and all that He is, forever (as was their wish in this life...).
So, this group "gets their wish and desire" -- which is to have nothng to do with God. God grants them that. You know..., I've heard many people say that from what they know about Heaven that this would be *hell* to them. And so, they would rather not go there..., but rather be with their friends "in hell" as a better place for them.
Well, they will get their wish and desires....
Regards,
Star Traveler
http://www.messiahsfellowship.org/isaiah53.html
What is interesting is that Jesus did see His offspring -- for He is their Creator! After being buried for three days He rose again, never to die again. As a result of Jesus’ actions, all those who believe are prospering from his obedience to the Father even on to death.
I'm sorry, but this is not necessary at all. Chr*stianity bases its claims and those of the "new testament" on being somehow "authorized by," "prophesied by," or a "fulfillment of" the "old testament." If the "old testament" does not authorize or prophesy the "new," then chr*stianity falls flat. Otherwise, the "new testament" would have been added to the Jewish Bible to form a single sacred book, but would have been completely separate, like the so-called "holy qur'an."
The ancient sacrifices were mitzvot--commandments. Those of Yom Kippur were specifically for the sins of Israel. Likewise, the individual Israelite brought sacrifices for certain unintentional sins. For intentional sins, only teshuvah (repentance) obtains forgiveness. This has always been the case, whether or not the Temple was standing.
The Temple was destroyed once before by the Babylonians. The Jews had no access to sacrifices for seventy years, yet the Messiah hadn't come. The exile of the past two millenia differs only in quantity, not quality. Furthermore, the Torah clearly prophesies in both Leviticus and Deuteronomy that Israel would be exiled from its Land. Exile, by definition, meant no access to the Temple and its service. The Torah states quite plainly that this will come about as a punishment for the sin of forsaking the Torah. It never so much as intimates that Israel will be punished for "rejecting the Messiah" or holding onto the Torah after it has allegedly been "fulfilled."
As to law and good works, until the reformation of Martin Luther chr*stians spent fifteen hundred years meriting salvation via law, good works, rituals, and sacramental confessions. This being the case, one can only wonder why a new religion was ever necessary.
If the writer Matthew made his arguments using the old testament while appealing to fellow Jews, then it is your logic that because Matthew was adopted as Christian scripture it therefore doesn't use the old testament as its basis?
And you call me illogical?
When exactly did the OT books get codified as being scripture, was it before or after Christianity?
8-)
Why?
It was very gracious of Christ to have sacrificed himself for our sins. I can't speak for others, but I am a big believer in personal responsibility. So if I have sinned, and I know I have, *I* alone would like to pay the price for it and suffer its consequences. Letting others pay or be blamed for my screw ups is just...liberalism.
Because GOD, does not lust for blood. Humans do.
Deuteronomy 4:35 You are the ones who have been shown, so that you will know that God is the Supreme Being, and there is none other besides Him!
To try to divide G-ds essence into a triune godhead is blasphemy of the highest form. Hashem spends a great deal of time in Torah, expressing His absolute unity-singleness. There can be no triune entity one of whom is a hybrid god-man.
See www.outreachjudaism.org for complete explainations.
Clearly, you do not understand Jewish traditon and ritual. You should read the Bible.
You said -- "Me, I'm a simple guy. As a fairly obervant Jew I mourn for the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and pray for its restoration. The purpose of its restoration, as far as I can tell, is to enable us to reinstitute the sacrifices that according to Jewish law can take place only there and nowhere else. For us Jews, the three daily prayer services are a surrogate for the sacrifices that we long to have restored speedily and within our days."
Well, it's interesting to hear from you. I've wondered about the synagogue system put into place after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. Of course, the Jews have been unable to fulfill their obligations under the law, as required, because so much of it is related to the Temple. Once the Temple was gone, then that changed a lot of things and also changed practices and changed "understanding" as it relates to the Temple.
Of course, I'm coming at this from the Christian standpoint, but I also take to heart the position of the Bible in regards to the Jews, their significance and importance to God's plan of salvation.
And, there are a significant number of Jews in the world who are coming to the Messiah, Yeshua (as they prefer to call him in these congregations).
I was in Baruch Hashem Messianic Synagogue, in Dallas, Texas, last Saturday. I try to stop in at several different Messianic Synagogues in my travels. Although I've been down in Dallas for a while, I hadn't stopped in there before. I think I'll be going back to check out a few more things. I wanted to stop in again to take a look at their library and check out a few books.
Their web site is -- http://www.baruchhashem.com/
I don't know if it may be interesting to you or not. I decided to stop by there because Jeffrey Seif, of Zola Levitt Ministries, had featured it in one of their broadcasts. And I think it's significant that there are a rapidly growing number of Messianic Synagogues in the world, and especially in Israel.
Here is one that Jeffrey Seif spoke at, in one of his many trips to Israel --
http://www.kkcj.org/
They call it "King of Kings Assembly" and it's located in Jerusalem. You can see their history page here -- http://www.kkcj.org/about/our-history
And it's very interesting and significant to see this very rapid growth of the Messianic Congregations from about 30 years ago. It didn't exist before that, in history. This is the first time -- well..., the first time since "Biblical days" that is. And this relates to the passage that the Apostle Paul wrote about, in Romans 11:11-15. He's talking about the Jews here, and how their "rejection" for a time and then their "reconciliation" at the end -- relates to the Gentiles
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.
12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry
14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
That last verse, verse 15 is the *kicker* here. And what does that represent -- "life from the dead" -- a clear indication and reference to those end days when the dead will be raised (soon to come, as we speak).
And this is what we're seeing now, the "reconciliation" taking place, right now, which is exemplified by the Jewish Messianic Movement all over the Jewish world and to its center in Jerusalem. So, I think it's a significant and prophetic event, along with all the preparations for the rebuilding of the Temple and what will be happening next.
You also said -- "I imagine that part of the reason that General Moshe Dayan of Israel gave the keys to the Temple Mount to the Muslim Mufti of Jerusalem after it was liberated in 1967 was to prevent religious Jews from pushing for restoration of Jewish obligations on the Temple Mount. For some of us, this act was the worst ever done by the Israeli government -- even worse than the destruction of the Jewish communities of Gaza and the surrender of most of Hevron to the Palestinian Authority."
That was a definite "blow" to a lot of people. It was absolutey incredible. I still wonder about that. Of course, coming at that from another perspective, and from one that I approach with my Christian perspective, and keeping in mind that God does intend to bring the Jews back to the land and establish His Kingdom there, with the Messiah ruling and reigning -- it could be said that the "timing" was not quite yet, and that Moshe Dayan (who pretty much acted *unilaterally* in the matter) played into the proper timing for things to come -- regardless of what his thinking was on the matter. That's the way God works in the world, using anyone, regardless of their own personal thinking or faith (or lack thereof).
So, yes..., I do expect the Messiah to come and set up the Kingdom and bring peace to the entire world -- but it will be the one that God sent once before, who was initially rejected (although that was "in the plan of God") and who is returning, of which time the Bible says that the Jews *will* recognize Him this time around.
I think I can safely say that I will be accepting the arrival of the Messiah of Israel, just like the Jews will do -- when He comes. I think I can say that your Messiah will be my Messiah. The Apostle Paul says that and I agree with him in the Word of God. As he says, he was a Jew's Jew" of the day, keeping the law faithfully (and so was Yeshua...).
Well, I hope this opens up some areas for consideration and perhaps further talking. Thanks for your comments...
Regards,
Star Traveler
Nevertheless, it was the blood of the lambs that protected the Jews from the angel of death. This is a prefigurement of Christ's atoning death on the Cross.
The Old Testament does speak of the coming Messiah as a lamb, who will be slain as an atonement for our sins.
Isaiah 53The Passover also holds import for Jesus teaching regarding the Eucharist.1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jews believe that the Passover meal "makes present" the Exodus, in a greater sense than simple remembrance, which is why many Jewish converts to Catholicism have less difficulty with the concept of the Eucharist "making present" Jesus' sacrifice on Calvary.
Additionally, it's important for Christians to remember that the lamb must be consumed for the Passover meal to be complete.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
A lamb which the Israelites were commanded to eat with peculiar rites as a part of the Passover celebration. The Divine ordinance is first recorded in Exodus, xii, 3-11, where Yahweh is represented as giving instructions to Moses to preserve the Hebrews from the last of the plagues inflicted upon the Egyptians, viz. the death of the firstborn. On the tenth day of the first month each family (or group of families, if they are small) is commanded to take a lamb without blemish, male, of one year, and keep it until the fourteenth day of the month, and sacrifice it in the evening. The blood of the lamb must be sprinkled on the transom and doorposts of the houses in which the paschal meal is taken. The lamb should be roasted and eaten with unleavened bread and wild lettuce.The whole of the lamb must be consumed -- head, feet, and entrails -- and if any thing remain of it until morning it must be burned with fire. The Israelites are commanded to eat the meal in haste, with girded loins, shoes on their feet, and staves in their hands "for it is the Phase (that is, Passage) of the Lord." The blood of the lamb on the doorposts served as a sign of immunity or protection against the destroying hand of the Lord, who smote in one night all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. This ordinance is repeated in abridged form in Numbers xix, 11, 12, and again in Deuteronomy, xvi, 2-6, where sheep and oxen are mentioned instead of the lamb.
That the Paschal Lamb prefigured symbolically Christ, "the Lamb of God", who redeemed the world by the shedding of His blood, and particularly the Eucharistic banquet, or new Passover, has always remained the constant belief of Christian tradition.
The Orthodox even pray for the dead, as they have since ancient times.
2 Maccabbees 12:39-4639 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs.
40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.
41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.
42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Isaiah 9
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Daniel 7
13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Isaiah 63:8-10
He said, "Surely they are my people, sons who will not be false to me"; and so he became their Savior. In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them.
Not in the natural sense...
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
John 1:10-13
You said -- "I should know; I am technically a kohen (genetically proven, even), albeit one in a state of considerable impuirty, as I married a gentile."
That's very interesting. Would you consider yourself to be a Messianic Jew, or simply a more "conventional" (if I can use that designation) Christian?
I mentioned in another post (here on this thread) that I had visited the Baruch Hashem Synagogue last Saturday (in Dallas). They've been featured on the Zola Levitt program and so I decided to drop in. I was inside there when that big dust storm/cloud hit Dallas that day.
And with your "position" in the Jewish race, will you be called upon to perform priestly duties when the Temple is rebuilt? Are you disqualified because of your "faith"?
A number of years ago, I ran into a Jew who said that he could be called upon to perform priestly duties, when it became necessary. He seemed inclined to do so.
Regards,
Star Traveler
This in my judgment, is an isogetic view of scripture. As has been mentioned before, the Passover event is not associated with the forgiveness of sins. It was part of G-ds plan to free Israel from the bondage of Egypt. Therefore the man from Nazareth can not be equated. Furthermore, if the man from Nazareth were to be equated with a sin offering, it would be done in the temple on the alter. He was instead, crucified on a cross, not an alter and outside the temple. Furthermore G-d expressly forbids human sacrifice. Since Christian theology teaches that the man from Nazareth is 100%man and 100%divine, he is being a man, unqualified to be a sacrifice. Even a "prefect" human, is still a human and therefore unsuited for sacrifice. And G-d nevers says anywhere in scripture that He will sacrifice Himself for the forgiveness of sins.
I also cant help but notice that you have highlighted portions of scripture which forms Christian theology but ignore the words adjacent, which refute it. For example, in verse 10, right after the highlighted portion, it says: his will see his offspring and prolong his days. Jesus had no children and died at a young age. The verse does not fit him. Also, in verse 7: he did not open his mouth. Jesus many times open his mouth during the trial and crucification.
You said -- "Baruch Hashem"
Are you advertising for Baruch Hashem Synagogue in Dallas, Texas? ;-)
http://www.baruchhashem.com/
I was wondering since I just visited there last Saturday...
Regards,
Star Traveler
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