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Heart Attack Patient Dies In ER Waiting Room- Ruled a Homicide
Associated Press ^ | 9/16/06 | 60 Gunner

Posted on 09/16/2006 9:25:30 PM PDT by 60Gunner

Being an ER nurse, I tend to fasten my attention onto cases such as this one.

According the the AP story, a 49-year-old woman came into the ER complaining of chest pain, nausea, and shortness of breath. (Okay, all you nurses out there: pipe down and let the laypersons catch up.) She is triaged, classified "semi-emergent," and instructed to wait for her name to be called. Two hours later, when the woman's turn to be seen had arrived and her name was called by the triage nurse, the woman did not respond, The nurse approached the woman and found her unresponsive and pulseless. (That's medical-ese for "dead.")

The ensuing coroner's inquest ruled the woman's death a homicide. No details are available at this time regarding exactly who is to be charged with this woman's death.

Here is my view of the matter.

At the emergency department in which I am employed, there is a simple standard of practice that governs the treatment of any person who complains of chest pain, shortness of breath, and nausea, whether the person is 18 or 90 years old, and it is as follows: Treat it as a heart attack. That means get them into a treatment room, Give them oxygen, stick a large-bore (20 gauge or larger) IV needle into them (two would be better), draw labs including troponin I (a marker for cardiac injury), slap cardiac monitor leads onto them and perform a 12-lead electrocardiogram. If their blood pressure is stable, we may also give a spray of sublingual nitroglycerine and four baby aspirin.

(One may say that 18 years old is a bit young to be having a heart attack, and it is. But it happens; not very often, mind you, but just often enough to cause us to keep our guard up. So we don't take any chances.)

The rationale for all of these drastic measures (all of which occur within minutes of admission) is that if we act on the assumption of the worst-case, we will already be ahead of the curve. We can always back off on treatment strategies if it turns out to be something other than cardiac-related. But if it turns out to be a heart attack, then time is of the essence. And if the ER staff was caught flatfooted, the patient can die and the staff can be in a lot of trouble, as is the case with this Illinois ER.

Now, I was obviously not there to see all that went on in this woman's case, and therefore I will not point fingers. But I suspect that the error occurred because of an inexperienced triage nurse. On the other hand, triage nurses as a rule have to be experienced nurses before given that duty, in order to avoid this kind of tragedy. I think that in such a case, the only thing that could throw off the triage nurse's assessment would be whether or not the patient drove herself (or was driven by a friend or loved one) versus calling 911 and being transported by ambulance. Even then, given the victim's symptomology and the fact that she showed up in an ER, I am having a very hard time giving this staff the benefit of the doubt.

The moral of this story for the nurses who read this is: chest pain + shortness of breath + nausea = heart attack until proven otherwise.

And the moral of the story for my non-nursing readers out there is: chest pain + shortness of breath + nausea = heart attack until proven otherwise. So if you have these symptoms, don't be stupid. Do not drive yourself to the hospital or even ask a friend or loved one to do it. Call 911 and sit tight. You will get there faster, and you'll be taken a lot more seriously than if you were to walk in under your own power like so many frequent flyers with anxiety attacks do. We are skilled and trained, but you have to help us out here.

Somebody in that Illinois ER is going to pay with his/her license and maybe even some jail time before this is over. The hospital will likely be out millions of dollars. I can't really defend that, and I won't even try. In my heart of hearts, I know that there is no excuse for allowing a patient who may be having a heart attack to sit for two hours when an EKG and labs can be done on a stretcher in the ER hallway in five minutes and the patient can at least be monitored.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 60gunner; chestpain; emergencynursing; health; healthcare; heart; heartattack; heartattacksymptoms; medicine
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To: TomServo
About 3 minutes later I flatlined. But they got me back. Man - did I give 'em a scare...heh heh...haven't smoked since...:-)

Let me guess, you didn't pass through any tunnel with a bright light at the end of it either did you.

I'm asked quite often if I have had any life long changes in attitude since and I always respond with the same "Nope, I'm STILL ornery as ever"! ; )

201 posted on 09/17/2006 6:46:20 AM PDT by EGPWS
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To: trussell
Would you mind explaining what you felt and what the diagnoses was? For the benefit of others who may be feeling the same and not know how much danger they could really be in!

A sharp chest pain for just a second and from then on feeling like I had a golf ball lodged in my throat.

Remember however I didn't have a heart attack, it was different however just as deadly.

202 posted on 09/17/2006 6:50:39 AM PDT by EGPWS
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To: EGPWS
Remember however I didn't have a heart attack, it was different however just as deadly.

I do remember that...with knowledge of what it felt like, and what the problem was...your testimony could save lives. If the person waits too long, it WILL be too late.

203 posted on 09/17/2006 6:55:09 AM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are eternal!)
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To: trussell
Oh, and good morning! : ) I'm lucky today. There is a lot of abodes in the area in shambles. I will only have to clean up branches.

Some homes were destroyed just by strait winds without rotation.

204 posted on 09/17/2006 7:02:17 AM PDT by EGPWS
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To: EGPWS

Good morning to you! I had been praying after your email...asking for your protection and that of your friends and family. I'm thankful, and will give praises to God for his blessing!


205 posted on 09/17/2006 7:10:00 AM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are eternal!)
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To: rebelyell7
This nurse losing her license is probably warranted. Facing criminal charges is absurd. There is no evidence of any malicious intent; unless you've never made a serious mistake in your job, I wouldn't throw the first stone. Maybe the nurse misunderstood her symptom descriptions, maybe she just made a big mistake and should lose her license and be held civilly liable. But the moment you start throwing medical professionals in jail for messing up (even for serious mistakes) you're going to radically change the health care system and you won't like how it ends up.

Perhaps so, but does medical malpractice ever become criminally negligent homicide? No? No matter how negligent?

Just curious.

206 posted on 09/17/2006 7:27:56 AM PDT by Brujo (Quod volunt, credunt.)
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To: 60Gunner
"And the moral of the story for my non-nursing readers out there is: chest pain + shortness of breath + nausea =" Ticket to the front of the line during flu season.

Ask some one with the flu if they have these symptoms, and the govt (aka taxpayers aka you and me) will be giving them $5K doses of nyquill at the end of their "ER visit".

207 posted on 09/17/2006 7:44:06 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (If a monkey bangs away at a typewriter twice a week for ten years it could write an M. Dowd column.)
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To: NinoFan

No, not me.


208 posted on 09/17/2006 7:51:51 AM PDT by ER Doc
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To: baa39

There are people who actually physically damage themselves
in order to be seen and treated. There are people who
also know all the symptoms of a disease and repeat them to
the physician in order to be treated. These are well
known syndromes....So if someone presents with too many
complaints, but the physical, ekg, labs, etc are negative
they get put on low priority..,


209 posted on 09/17/2006 7:52:14 AM PDT by Getready (Truth and wisdom are more elusive, and valuable, than gold and diamonds)
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To: rawcatslyentist

Thank heavens we have so many medical people on this thread to make it known that these are serious symptoms...hopefully people wont be swayed from seeking appropriate treatment due to your comment

What if it were your mother, father, child, etc...who was having a serious cardiac episode, Would you want them to get immediate treatment? If it turned out to be the flu, would you be thankful or resentful that you would have to pay for a portion of their treatment with your taxes?


210 posted on 09/17/2006 7:59:42 AM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are eternal!)
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To: 60Gunner

The only problem with that viewpoint is that many hospital
administrators, 3rd party payers, and patients expect nurses
to do everything at once, and do more with less..

It's amazing, we have money for SUV's, plasma TV's,
gambling, cable TV, cellphones, botox., diet products,
going out to dinner daily, sports entertainment, liquor,
cigarettes, dangerously fast cars, high fashion, lattes,
money for failing public schools, 22 inch wheel rims on
cars and trucks, car DVDs, legal and illegal drugs,
money to pay for illegals schooling and health care, portable
backyard barbeques, motorhomes, time-shares, world wide
vacations, $150 dollar sneakers, $500 sunglasses, $150
steaks, $600 bottles of wine, home theaters...
but got no money for our own health care...

Just an observation, mind you, not a condemnation.


211 posted on 09/17/2006 8:09:00 AM PDT by Getready (Truth and wisdom are more elusive, and valuable, than gold and diamonds)
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To: contrarian

One of my friends used to tell me about the "womens" hospital
he had to train at, where a lot of the pregnant
women would come in and complain of stomach pain, and would
get a free sonogram. The suspicion was that many just wanted
to get a sonogram done, so would complain of symptoms which
a sonogram was needed for diagnosis...prety slick, no?


I personally knew a health professional, who pretended to
have a very sore neck, was wearing a brace, but what he
was doing was going around to different doctors, getting
prescriptions for opiate (read morphine) based painkillers.
We found out later, that on the day he got a potent opiate
based painkiller, that he had checked himself into a hospital
with chest pain (morphine is used to relieve the chest pain
as it is a decent vasodilator)...fortunately he was
fired from his position as soon as his behaviour was
discovered.


212 posted on 09/17/2006 8:20:54 AM PDT by Getready (Truth and wisdom are more elusive, and valuable, than gold and diamonds)
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To: trussell
>"hopefully people wont be swayed from seeking appropriate treatment due to your comment "

Hopefully not.

It is getting harder and harder to get emergency treatment, was my point.

When the ED if filled with people that claim chest pains just to get in a bed, and get seen first. It becomes difficult to know who to actually see first. I worked in an ED back in 95 , and saw many abuses of the system. People giving affirmatives to the simple questions, only when in the presence of the MD, did the real problems surface. My ankle, my ghonorreah, my infected toenail, why yes everyone I know has the flu.

When the ED is packed with everyone claiming MI symptoms, who do you see first?

213 posted on 09/17/2006 8:21:24 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (If a monkey bangs away at a typewriter twice a week for ten years it could write an M. Dowd column.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
..tick AH.. tick AH.. tick AH.. BOOM BOOM tick AH BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOM ah______________________


Something like that?
214 posted on 09/17/2006 8:29:29 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: rawcatslyentist

When people do that, they should be escorted back to the waiting room and made to wait until all other cases have been seen. Eventually, they will learn to not take advantage of the system.


215 posted on 09/17/2006 8:30:55 AM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are eternal!)
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To: rawcatslyentist
My 25 year old niece went to the ER because she thought she had the flu. She got to where she couldn't even make it across the room without holding onto the walls. Long story short.....She was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, transfered to Loma Linda U, she died 10 days after being diagnosed.
216 posted on 09/17/2006 8:33:00 AM PDT by 1035rep
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To: msnimje
To the best of my knowledge, if you have an emergency in the UK you get immediate treatment. It's the elective stuff for which you have to put your name down at birth.
217 posted on 09/17/2006 8:36:18 AM PDT by Churchillspirit (We are all foot soldiers in this War On Terror.)
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To: 60Gunner
I am not a doctor. I am a nurse.

Then I thank you even more. All the stress and exhaustion, without the possibility of a six figure income.

218 posted on 09/17/2006 9:08:56 AM PDT by Semper911 ("We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it." -Marge Simpson)
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To: 1035rep
Sorry to hear about that.

How long did she wait in the waiting room, behind non emergency cases?

219 posted on 09/17/2006 9:29:25 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (If a monkey bangs away at a typewriter twice a week for ten years it could write an M. Dowd column.)
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To: EGPWS

"Nope, I'm STILL ornery as ever"!

You too, huh? :-)


220 posted on 09/17/2006 9:44:57 AM PDT by TomServo ("Uh, Donner, party of three please.")
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