Native Americans Recorded Supernova Explosion

New Scientist ^ | 6-5-2006 | Zeeya Merali - Kelly Young

[blam]

Native Americans recorded supernova explosion

16:45 05 June 2006
NewScientist.com news service
Zeeya Merali and Kelly Young

The Arizonan petroglyph may depict the supernova of 1006 AD - the star symbol is on the right and the constellation Scorpius on the left (Image: John Barentine, Apache Point Observatory)

This double-sun petroglyph at Chaco Canyon National Monument in New Mexico may depict the supernova of 4 July 1054 (Image: Mark Lansing)

There are numerous examples of rock art in the Chaco Canyon National Monument depicting celestial objects (Image: Mark Lansing)

Prehistoric Native Americans may have carved a record of a supernova explosion that appeared in the skies a millennium ago into a rock in Arizona, US.

John Barentine, an astronomer at the Apache Point Observatory in New Mexico, came across the carving while hiking in the White Tank Mountain Regional Park in Arizona.

It depicts a scorpion and an eight-pointed star. "I had just been reading about the supernova of AD 1006 and I knew it appeared in the constellation Scorpius, so the connection flashed into my mind."

To make his case, Barentine and his colleague Gilbert A. Esquerdo, at the Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, used planetarium software to recreate the sky as it would have appeared in Arizona during the supernova's appearance and overlaid it with photographs from the site.

The supernova would have been brighter than a planet, and both it and the constellation - which is shaped like a scorpion - would have appeared just above the edge of the rock, in the same orientation depicted in the carvings. Native Americans populated the region during that period and often recorded objects thought to have magical powers, says Barentine.

"It's by no means conclusive, but I think it's strong circumstantial evidence that the art depicts the supernova," says Barentine. He announced his theory at the American Astronomical Society Meeting in Calgary, in Alberta, Canada, on Monday.

Star watchers

The supernova was recorded by star watchers in Asia, the Middle-East and Europe. But until now, nobody thought that prehistoric Native Americans followed events in the sky. "I don't think enough credit has been given to the ancient Native Americans in the past, but that might change now," Barentine told New Scientist.

If the art does represent the supernova, it would provide a useful date to help work out the age of neighbouring rock carvings, which are difficult to assess by other methods, says Barentine.

But the White Tank Mountain is not the first suspected supernova petroglyph in North America. A petroglyph at Chaco Canyon National Monument in New Mexico may depict the supernova of 4 July 1054.

Another petroglyph at White Tank may also be a recording of the AD 1054 supernova. White Tank Mountain park ranger Mark Lansing says that petroglyph looks like colliding suns and is nestled in a back canyon along with pictures of other celestial objects.

"The AD 1006 petroglyph is a little more abstract," Lansing says of Barentine's find. "I'd seen his petroglyph but not really related it to the sky for 1006. He does show what the sky may have looked like in AD 1006."

[S0122017]

Pioneer psychiatrist Dr. Carl Jung came up with his theory of psychic archetypes and the collective unconscious. And symbols like the cross or the swastika are used all over the world by different cultures.

Unfortunately for that theory: those symbols from different cultures may look alike but have different meanings!

Besides, crosses, circles and swastikas are easy to make. What did you expect someone to etch into a rock? A mile wide abstract symbol or a wiggly line? There are only so many ways to make a wiggly line, so you get repetition.

IF the symbols also carry the same meaning, well, than maybe you got something.

[S0122017]

maine-iac7
We try to ignore the histories of the Native Americans because we haven't grown up enough yet to admit they were not just a bunch of wild savages whose lands we were meant to take thru' "manifest destiny."

Perfect stranger
Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

No he's just happy to see a petroglyph depicting a nova. I'd like to add that native americans where already known to depict stars to begin with, so I would think it ain't a big leap from assuming that they would actually remember which stars are in what position. The individuals that where interested in stars anyway.

[S0122017]

I hold that ancient Hebrew is the ancient languiage from which all Indo-European languages are derived.

But you will find that many words are eerily similar in meaning and construction among most languages, so finding out exactly which one is the oldest is difficult. More likely the oldest language simply does not exist anymore though. I still think that Negev-hebrew is the closest to it, since it is incredibly simple in written depiction (pictographs) yet carry very complex symbolic meaning.

The oldest example of written language is also either hebrew or egyptian, depending on which dating you trust. So that makes it likely that the verbal component is also ancient.

[S0122017]

Maybe both sides are right! Indians DID depict the super nova, but only since the aliens told them about the event.

[S0122017]

Gibson is finally making a movie on one such civilization - the Mayans. Disappointing...

It's Gibson. What do you expect? After that passion movie nonsense it is obvious that guy doesn't care about the truth. He has no choice but to make all other cultures look like barbarians like glorify his own.
Anyway, I heard Mayans probably did sacrifice people, but any culture killed out of name of their religion. So I don't see if it matters whether you sacrifice directly to your deity or wipe out entire cultures out of name of your deity.

[Hatteras]

No offense but I find it hard to believe that American Indians.... or ANY indians for that matter, would look up at the stars and see a scorpion in that group of stars. (Even WITH the line drawn in for clarity.)

[gcruse]

LOL

[Sacajaweau]

I'm sure we could come up with unending titles for the "rock art" piece. Dating it is another thing.

I knew I was on the path of the old trail....stopped...carved (with stone cutters tools)1786 on it with particular initials attached. Someday, someone will notice it and go nuts!!

[Sacajaweau]

We scared the hell out of the natives when we knew a solar eclipse would occur!!

[RightWhale]

Egyptian mummies of the ruling class contain chemical residue of cocaine and tobacco, neither of which were crops raised in the old world but had to be imported from the new world. Besides that, by 1000 AD Euros were wandering all over the new world.

[S0122017]

SANSKRIT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
The original form, Vedic Sanskrit, was probably in use as early as 1800 BC.



ARCHAIC EGYPTIAN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian
Archaic Egyptian (before 2600 BC)
Old Egyptian (2600 BC – 2000 BC)



SUMERIAN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language
The Sumerian language of ancient Sumer was spoken in Southern Mesopotamia from at least the 4th millennium BCE.



HEBREW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew_language
Biblical Hebrew is further divided into the so called 'Golden Age' Hebrew (1200 BCE to 500 BCE) and 'Silver Age' Hebrew (500 BCE to 60 BCE).

I havent been able to find a wiki page on negev Hebrew, that is the language which is the predecessor of biblical Hebrew, but I remember it was dated at around 4th century BC at least, and some claim it is older. At least Egyptian and Sumerian language is older than Sanskrit.

[RightWhale]

devolved from the same parent tongue or tongues

Maybe they devolved, but not much. BTW, the winning word in the national spelling bee was Ursprache, which we are now allowed to use as if it were an English word rather than German.

[maine-iac7]

After that passion movie nonsense it is obvious that guy doesn't care about the truth. He has no choice but to make all other cultures look like barbarians like glorify his own.

So I'm NOT the only one on the planet that saw Gibson's twisted Passion script as nonsense.......

I think the runaway best "Jesus" movie is still Franco Zeffirelli's 1977, "Jesus of Nazareth" .

It follows the bible faithfully, except for the MM=whore bit.

The actors are superbly cast, the scenes and photography are museum paintings,,,The emphasis is on Jesus's mission = His teachings. Look at this cast!

Cast overview, first billed only:

Robert Powell .... Jesus Christ

Anne Bancroft .... Mary Magdalene

Ernest Borgnine .... The Centurion

Claudia Cardinale .... The Adulteress

Valentina Cortese .... Herodias

James Farentino .... Simon Peter

James Earl Jones .... Balthazar

Stacy Keach .... Barabbas

Tony Lo Bianco .... Quintilius

James Mason .... Joseph of Arimathea

Ian McShane .... Judas Iscariot

Laurence Olivier .... Nicodemus

Donald Pleasence .... Melchior

Christopher Plummer .... Herod Antipas

Anthony Quinn .... Caiaphas

(more)

Robert Powell is perfect in the role - and his face is Jesus... This movie is a watch again and again one. Not many of them.

[From many - one.]

Yes, I wasn't trying to hide the time-exposure factor but perhaps should have made a specific statement.

Trouble is, that image doesn't look all that different from the night sky in rural areas when I was a kid.

And I haven't seen any image of that region of the sky that looks like a scorpion.

And (again see my post 37 and I have more) the myths and names are too similar in my view for anything by contact or continuity.

[From many - one.]

And similar myths, word stucture and gender (female, all scorpion-sky-deieties I've ever read about are female except one; two are female human with scorpion tails)

[From many - one.]

anything but contact or continuity

not "by"

[little jeremiah]

Wikipedia is made out of whatever people put into it. I wish I had time to investigate and post on this thread. I'll ping Gengis again, maybe he'll have time. The history you're depending on is "fluid".

[S0122017]

The same counts for this forum LOL

Iif I go searching in archeological books, I will find out other dates? I know Egyptian language is dated to be very old, at least 5000 years.

[little jeremiah]

Unfortunately many of my books are packed at the moment. Later on tonight I'll see what I can dig up.

[Captain Beyond]

bump for later read