Atheists File Suit Against UHP Memorial Crosses

ABC 4 in Utah ^ | 12/1/2005 | ABC 4

[Andyman]

A lawsuit against memorial crosses is set to be filed Thursday by a group that feels they violate the separation of church and state.

Three Utah atheists, backed by a national organization based in Texas, are filing suit against the state for allowing crosses to be erected in honor of highway patrol troopers, who have died in the line of duty.

Richard Andrews said, "I feel the same way a Jew might feel if you put a state symbol on a swastika"

According to the UHP Association, a support group for troopers and their families, many fallen troopers' relatives consider the memorial crosses just as important as the tombstones that mark their graves.

Sgt. Todd Royce of the UHP Association told ABC 4 News, "It's a sense of pride, I think. It's a... kind of a sacred feeling."

The atheists suggest the association could honor the troopers with a non-denominational symbol.

[WildTurkey]

Oh wait, that was the atheistic Communists who murdered 100 million. Never mind

There are other ideological similarities as well. All three tend to be ethnocentric, viewing the world around them as being inherently evil, and all three tend to see everything in simplistic, dualistic terms: Us vs. them, good vs. evil, etc. This is an important fact to be remembered when religious zealots today insist that everyone follow the absolutes of their religion. Properly understood, atheism stands for the principles of reason, freedom and individual rights. It is opposed to all forms of totalitarian ideology. Yes, there are individual atheists who are communists. However, the attempt to link all atheists and all communists under the same ideological banner completely falls apart when the facts are revealed. But then, what does faith have to do with the facts?

[WildTurkey]

The left considers the Cross to be morally equivalent with the swastika. That kinda says it all about them, doesn't it?

"Gott mit uns,"

[WildTurkey]

Then I figured it would just be faster to call you an idiot and save us both a lot of time.

No more is expected from good "Christians".

[WildTurkey]

The individuals who perpetrated the German atrocities were NOT church goers at best and thought they were gods...

"Gott mit uns?"

[FormerLib]

Properly understood, atheism stands for the principles of reason, freedom and individual rights. It is opposed to all forms of totalitarian ideology.

As in the case of Michael Newdow, perhaps?

What a truckload of Bravo Sierra!

[WildTurkey]

If God doesn't exist, then do atheists have God-given rights?

You probably think that is clever but if you re-read it carefully, you will see how dumb it reads.

[WildTurkey]

You would like crescents on the back of our dollar bills?

[WildTurkey]

When the end of the war neared, the Nazis worked frantically to eliminate as much of the evidence of their crimes as they could. They knew full well that what they did was wrong...does that sound like the act of Christians?

The Church did everything they could to hide the molestors ...

[WildTurkey]

Ideologically, however, where Christianity has many specific and universally accepted notions which are emnity between Christianity and Nazism, there is plainly nothing in atheism to oppose Nazism.

What is there in Christianity to oppose Nazism?

[FormerLib]

Properly understood, atheism stands for the principles of reason, freedom and individual rights. It is opposed to all forms of totalitarian ideology.

Get a load of this one, guys. So all of those atheistic Communists were really opposed to totalitariansim, eh? Must be slow over at DU today.

[FormerLib]

You would like crescents on the back of our dollar bills?

Almost as much as I like non sequitirs and strawmen posing as a discussion, sho'nuff!

[FormerLib]

What is there in Christianity to oppose Nazism?

The brotherhood of man, the image of God in all men, salvation for all those who seek it...

Perhaps you should stick to a topic that you know about?

[WildTurkey]

"In one week, almost 100,100 Protestants perished. The rivers of France were so filled with corpses that for many months no fish were eaten. In the valley of the Loire, wolves came down from the hills to feel upon the decaying bodies of Frenchmen. The list of massacres was as endless as the list of the dead!
...
When news of the Massacre reached the Vatican there was jubilation! Cannons roared—bells rung—and a special commemorative medal was struck—to honor the occasion! The Pope commissioned Italian artist Vasari to paint a mural of the Massacre—which still hangs in the Vatican!"

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

[WildTurkey]

The brotherhood of man, the image of God in all men, salvation for all those who seek it...

Christianity. The brotherhood of fellow "like" Christians, the image of God in only fellow "like" Christians and hell for all that do not seek salvation even if they have never heard of salvation ... Duh .

[WildTurkey]

What is there in Christianity to oppose Nazism?

The brotherhood of man, the image of God in all men, salvation for all those who seek it... Perhaps you should stick to a topic that you know about?

I think Hitler was very strong on brotherhood and religious symbolism. Seems to have similar foundations of 'religion'.

[WildTurkey]

Almost as much as I like non sequitirs and strawmen posing as a discussion, sho'nuff!

Ah, you noticed. I hope you noticed that I threw it in to point out the "non-sequiter" and strawman to point out to the poster that he was guilty of the same. One good "sequitir" deserves another.

BTW, it helps if, when using big words, you spell them correctly.

[GatorGirl]

Thank you.

If they were objecting to a cross being erected for an atheist Trooper, I could understand.

But apparently they are objecting because crosses erected for Christian Troopers offend them!

I have no objection to memorializing the deceased in a way meaningful to that person.

These atheists have become anti-theists. By virtue of your thoughtful post, I guess that's not the same!

[Auntie Dem]

"...I think that the issue might be different (perhaps not legally, but in my mind) if the state is merely permitting another group to erect the crosses (say on public land) or is doing it themselves..."

That's what happened. A non-demoninational group paid for the crosses and erected them, the state just let them.

[GatorGirl]

How is erecting these memorials bullying non-Christians?