Posted on 11/24/2005 5:13:54 PM PST by lainie
ALCATRAZ ISLAND, United States (AFP) - A tribal chant rose from a thousands-strong prayer circle on Alcatraz Island in San Francisco Bay as Native Americans held a sunrise "Unthanksgiving Day" ceremony.
"What we call it is Unthanksgiving," Bear Lincoln of the Wailikie Tribe told AFP as he waved burning sage to purify the area and ward off evil spirits.
"It was the saddest day for us. It was a big mistake for us to help the Pilgrims survive that first winter. They betrayed us once they got their strength."
Traditional Thanksgiving feasting in the United States is a tribute to the meal the original European Pilgrims shared with the Native Americans who helped them survive in the new land.
An estimated 3,000 people packed onto ferries that set out from Fisherman's Wharf for Alcatraz in the pre-dawn darkness Thursday, according to organizers.
A bonfire blazed at the center of a prayer circle set up on a bluff beneath the Alcatraz lighthouse. And at the base of the rock wall leading up to the ruins of the former federal prison were a pair of Indian teepees.
"Ultimately, this is their land," said Irma Pinedo, a Mexico City native who was among the Aztec dancers taking part in the ceremony. "For us, no turkey today."
Turkey, which nearly became the national bird in the United States instead of the eagle, is the main course at traditional Thanksgiving dinners.
"I take my children to this every year because I want them to understand there is another side to the story," said 41-year-old Erin Alexander, who added that the event has grown significantly since she began attending 12 years ago.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.netscape.cnn.com ...
Thanks!
Thank you very much for that personal account. I am glad to hear that so many Indians are Christians. I saw an Indian choir perform at a Promise Keepers convention some years ago. It was very moving indeed.
The Aztecs extended their influence far to the North.
You had Tom Cruise over for Thanksgiving?
You also should go back into the Old Testament and review Exodus, Numbers and Joshua...paying attention to how the "promised land" was acquired by the Israelites.
***V. Thou shalt not murder...
VII. Thou shalt not steal...
X. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.
Attempting to use religion to justify crimes against our fellow human being is sacrilegious.***
The Indians had no such qualms about these as they had no law.
Trappers reported Indians killing other Indians in camp over minor slights, and killing people just for the fun of it.
Indians stole anything they could get their hands on. The only killings during the Lewis and Clark exploration was of Blackfoot indians who had stolen a rifle and horse.
Indians considered it an honor to steal from others. Horses being a prime target. Theft brought them great honor among their own tribe.
Indians thought nothing of traveling hundreds of miles just to raid a tribe or town.
Read NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS by George Catlin. (the artist),
and TOUGH TRIP THROUGH PARADISE by Andrew Garcia for examples.
"The Aztecs and Mayans lived in North America ~ same as us.
The Aztecs extended their influence far to the North."
I was contrasting the great Aztec and Mayan centralized theocraticly ruled city-states with No. Amer.'s tribal and clan (uncentralized, communal) social structure. Also, I compared the Aztec and Mayan cultures with dynastic Egypt. What were the main influences extended by the Aztecs and their culture? I don't see it, but then I am limited in my knowledge...but I am seeking...seeking.
It's common to find MesoAmerican artifacts throughout the USA ~ they were passed along as tradegoods among other things.
For information on learning Nahuatl, see: http://www.indians.org/welker/nahuatl.htm. The site is introduced with this: "The Aztecs spoke a language called Náhuatl (pronounced NAH waht l). It belongs to a large group of Indian languages which also include the languages spoken by the Comanche, Pima, Shoshone and other tribes of western North America. The Aztec used pictographs to communicate through writing. Some of the pictures symbolized ideas and other represented the sounds of the syllables."
So, the primitive hunter/gatherers of the American West founded the Aztec empire and invented writing.
Not bad for a few centuries' work.
The Aztecs, in fact, came from the North. Later on, after they'd established their great city in the lake, they seem to have been responsible for driving the Anasazi out of their cliffside cities.
It's common to find MesoAmerican artifacts throughout the USA ~ they were passed along as tradegoods among other things.
For information on learning Nahuatl, see: http://www.indians.org/welker/nahuatl.htm. The site is introduced with this: "The Aztecs spoke a language called Náhuatl (pronounced NAH waht l). It belongs to a large group of Indian languages which also include the languages spoken by the Comanche, Pima, Shoshone and other tribes of western North America. The Aztec used pictographs to communicate through writing. Some of the pictures symbolized ideas and other represented the sounds of the syllables."
So, the primitive hunter/gatherers of the American West founded the Aztec empire and invented writing.
Not bad for a few centuries' work.
*Am I off by seeing many comparisons of the MezoAmerican/Aztec as well as the So.Amer/Mayan city-states with Egypt's empiric structure?
Among the limited sources on this subject in my personal library, I have a study by Francis Jennings, titled The Invasion of America...the Cant of Conquest. (Published by W.W.Norton & Company, NY, copyright 1975.)
Thanks for the reference site:
[Re:language:] "Nahuatl, see: http://www.indians.org/welker/nahuatl.htm.
A thought for you ~ cocaine dealers from the New World traveled to Egypt and gave them the idea for building pyramids.
I don't care about getting you banned; but, I will retort. You are absolutely full of crap! I never said the Indians DIDN'T get screwed, I agreed that they did. But, if they had the means they would have kicked the English back across the Atlantic, I don't see how you can say they wouldn't. The Indians weren't pacifists like Ghandi were they? (No joke intended) The English had crappy lives where they came from, they were trying for something better here. There was NEVER a policy by the English leaders early on of killing all the Indians. Many of the Puritans, such as Rev. Eliot and Roger Williams, tried to help them as much as they could. What happened was purely a clash of two cultures, and those that won had the best technology. I agree that the government didn't always treat the Indians well later on. Nothing I said was bad or racist in any way, and I honestly fail to see how anyone with a tiny bit of common sense can even extrapolate half the crap you did from what I wrote. I also take exception to your jibes at my Christianity, I will not do the same to you; I'm sure you are a good Christian. Good day!
PS:
The Indians understood land ownership very well, maybe they were misled a little bit, but the land was never actually stolen early on. Being tricked (like the Dutch and Manhattan Island) was more from the stupidity of individual Indian chiefs.
I suggest that No. Amer. Indians' sense of "property (land)ownership" was more like not owning but by having designated tribal territory. Early land sales between Indians and Euro settlers undoubtedly were negotiated in terms of mutual misunderstanding of the concept of "land ownership."
Don't want to reply to my last post hah? Probably because I'm right and you know it. Keep up the great work fighting injustice in the world!
Naah - he wouldn't come out of the closet long enough to eat! LOL
Wow you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
***Wow you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.***
Well, when you have read American Indian histories for the last 40 years as I have, then you can come and tell me I don't know what I am talking about.
Meanwhile you can also read...
ROMANCE AND TRAGEDY OF PIONEER LIFE"..by Augustus Lynch Mason (1883).
MASSACRES OF THE MOUNTAINS by J.p. Dunn Jr.
MY LIFE ON THE PLAINS by (trumpets and flourishes please),by Geo. Armstrong Custer.
TRIBAL WARS OF THE SOUTHERN PLAINS by Stan Hoig.
GREAT WESTERN INDIAN FIGHTS (University of Nebraska Press)
THE SAVAGE YEARS by Shepard Rifkin.
and about one thousand periodicals..
And this is just part of my personal library. Then hit the national public libraries and multiply that number by 10 and then come and talk to me.
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