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Native Americans Mourn Loss of Land With "Unthanksgiving" Rite
Netscape News via Drudge ^ | 11/24/2005 | AFP

Posted on 11/24/2005 5:13:54 PM PST by lainie

ALCATRAZ ISLAND, United States (AFP) - A tribal chant rose from a thousands-strong prayer circle on Alcatraz Island in San Francisco Bay as Native Americans held a sunrise "Unthanksgiving Day" ceremony.

"What we call it is Unthanksgiving," Bear Lincoln of the Wailikie Tribe told AFP as he waved burning sage to purify the area and ward off evil spirits.

"It was the saddest day for us. It was a big mistake for us to help the Pilgrims survive that first winter. They betrayed us once they got their strength."

Traditional Thanksgiving feasting in the United States is a tribute to the meal the original European Pilgrims shared with the Native Americans who helped them survive in the new land.

An estimated 3,000 people packed onto ferries that set out from Fisherman's Wharf for Alcatraz in the pre-dawn darkness Thursday, according to organizers.

A bonfire blazed at the center of a prayer circle set up on a bluff beneath the Alcatraz lighthouse. And at the base of the rock wall leading up to the ruins of the former federal prison were a pair of Indian teepees.

"Ultimately, this is their land," said Irma Pinedo, a Mexico City native who was among the Aztec dancers taking part in the ceremony. "For us, no turkey today."

Turkey, which nearly became the national bird in the United States instead of the eagle, is the main course at traditional Thanksgiving dinners.

"I take my children to this every year because I want them to understand there is another side to the story," said 41-year-old Erin Alexander, who added that the event has grown significantly since she began attending 12 years ago.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.netscape.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americanindians; amerindians; cavepeople; firewater; gobblegobble; nativeamericans; pilgrims; politicallycorrect; sf; shutupcrybabies; thanksgiving; ungrateful; unthanksgiving; welfarenation
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To: indcons

No he claims they went from America to the Pacific. You can't go the other way. I have read his books and have seen the studies you talk about. My guess is that they are both right.


201 posted on 11/24/2005 7:49:29 PM PST by U S Army EOD (I NEED TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER TAG LINE)
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To: ItsForTheChildren

I am not whining but it sounds like you are. I speak facts, if you don't agree fine, but to resort to name calling is childish don't you think?


202 posted on 11/24/2005 7:51:34 PM PST by calex59 (If you have to take me apart to get me there, I don't want to go!)
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To: Lester Moore
And if land is stolen does the weaker party have a right to have their land given back?

Legally speaking it would be difficult to determine exactly which Indians "owned" which land, as property rights and a governing body to divide keep track of them was, I gather, virtually unknown at the time. That doesn't make it right, and of course deliberately introducing diseases to the Indians was demonic. But settlers simply landing on the continental United States and setting up shope was not in and of itself a bad thing. It is also important to remember that many missionaries and evangelist were sent to the Indians by Christian denominations.

203 posted on 11/24/2005 7:52:51 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: TaMoDee
That we leave them alone. Conquest and colonization is immoral.
204 posted on 11/24/2005 7:54:57 PM PST by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: U S Army EOD
There are several ways a sail boat can travel "against the wind". One is to furl the sails and pull out the paddles. Another is to "tack".

Modern methods of tacking have totally displaced ancient (neoloithic) methods, so it's a common presumption that neolithic sailers could not sail "against the wind".

It would be surprising if the lanteen sail didn't arrive in the Americas at the same time as the bow and arrow (circa 800 AD) (in the same boat).

205 posted on 11/24/2005 7:58:51 PM PST by muawiyah (u)
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To: muawiyah
The people not the boats. I think there was a land bridge plus North African influence in Central America. The reason for the land bridge theory is because Eskimos in Alaska are related to ones is Siberia. They actually physically know each other. You can see Russia from Alaska. During an Ice Age the ocean would be low and it would be very easy to walk across. They had probably already done it a few times in small boats.

There were some Western tribes that built large ocean going fishing vessels that rivaled the Viking long ships. I think this is the crowd my uncle stayed with when he was on the West Coast. They had been using the sea for 100's of years to fish in. But they did not know how to sail against the wind.
206 posted on 11/24/2005 7:59:25 PM PST by U S Army EOD (I NEED TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER TAG LINE)
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To: Warthogtjm

Europeans had all sorts of inherited resistance to a wide variety of animal borne diseases. I can only guess why ~ maybe letting the pigs live in the hut with momma and kids led to that. Then there's the gang who are immune to cholera ~ it comes in handy when you have to drink water out of a ditch.


207 posted on 11/24/2005 8:00:39 PM PST by muawiyah (u)
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To: U S Army EOD

Good point.......human migration to the Americas was most probably through the Bering Straits. I am skeptical about the sea route theories because later Amerindian tribes do not appear to have the necessary technology.

Additionally, they were not a trading people. If they were, we would see more evidence of trade between the South American and North American tribes. Intercontinental trade (and by extension, travel) appears to have existed only in the "old world."


208 posted on 11/24/2005 8:00:50 PM PST by indcons (A Happy Thanksgiving to my FRiends and their families.)
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To: lepton
The indians only managed to kill about a third of the Europeans, and drug off remaining women and children, leaving an impression that even more had been killed. This is bound to have an effect on relations for a long time.

Indian aggression against European settlers is never discussed. Ever. I've never heard of the attack you describe.

209 posted on 11/24/2005 8:01:20 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: fso301
Yes, the period of "endless legal wranglings" was long over, and wouldn't come back as long as the Crown of Scotland was safely in the keep of the King of England.

Didn't you watch Brave Heart?

210 posted on 11/24/2005 8:02:12 PM PST by muawiyah (u)
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To: Lester Moore
I think you better reread about ol' Squanto.

Other than leaving out that he survived because he was elsewhere for several years, what are you disputing? After he'd been kidnapped, an epidemic wiped out his village (Patuxet?), and the few remaining moved out to meld in with other tribes, abandoning the village and immediate area. After being redeemed by priests, he eventually ended up back in the area of his village, and when the Pilgrims arrived he acted as a liaison.

211 posted on 11/24/2005 8:04:39 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: jec1ny

Conquest is good ~ it provides a broader gene pool and that is of value to our species, if not to any particular individual.


212 posted on 11/24/2005 8:04:49 PM PST by muawiyah (u)
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To: muawiyah
The Pacific canoes and cats are lanteen. You still have to have a center board to reduce leway.

What everybody used to do was sail down on a latitude. All of your land masses run north south and all of your wind runs east west. This how they got back and forth. I don't even think the Vikings had figured it out as far as sailing against the wind. I think someone in the Middle East came up with the way to do it./p>
213 posted on 11/24/2005 8:05:25 PM PST by U S Army EOD (I NEED TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER TAG LINE)
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To: muawiyah; U S Army EOD

Australia was probably populated by people crossing over from SE Asia through a land brisge during low-tide. After all, we know sea levels keep fluctuating pver time.

Again, if the Australian Aborgines used boats, why/how did they lose such a powerful technology? After all, these people were still living in the stone age when Jayavarma was building the architectural masterpieces in Cambodia and Indonesia, which were only a few miles away by boat.


214 posted on 11/24/2005 8:06:01 PM PST by indcons (A Happy Thanksgiving to my FRiends and their families.)
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To: Zack Nguyen

Read, "The Last Scalp Dance". It is not about that incident but it will give you an idea of why the Indians in the west were hated.


215 posted on 11/24/2005 8:07:42 PM PST by U S Army EOD (I NEED TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER TAG LINE)
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To: U S Army EOD
The Japanese who arrived in Arizona in the 1300s definitely knew how to sail against the wind. No doubt they abandoned the practice living out in the desert. The Haida probably didn't consider it all that worthwhile since they did their whaling quite close to shore and could paddle back and forth in the absence of wind. I think I noticed a gasoline motor mounted on the side of one of their boats that went out whaling last year.

Still, the absence of an observation of a particular element of sailing technology does not mean it did not exist in the area.

216 posted on 11/24/2005 8:07:58 PM PST by muawiyah (u)
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To: muawiyah
Didn't you watch Brave Heart?

No I haven't. I probably should watch it sometime.

217 posted on 11/24/2005 8:08:09 PM PST by fso301
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To: calex59
Oops! I was speaking of them whining, not you. My apologies - I didn't make that clear at all.
218 posted on 11/24/2005 8:09:17 PM PST by ItsForTheChildren
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To: U S Army EOD

Thanks!


219 posted on 11/24/2005 8:10:11 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: indcons
The Caribe, from South America, were busy conquering the Greater Antilles and Florida when Columbus arrived.

There are also substantial finds of South American culture in Mississippian sites.

You have to read more ~ there's lots of stuff that's gone on right under your nose.

220 posted on 11/24/2005 8:10:12 PM PST by muawiyah (u)
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