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Was Arthur a king or just a battle commander?
King Arthur: A Man for the Ages ^ | undated | David White

Posted on 11/06/2005 7:31:28 AM PST by Hacksaw

Explorations in Arthurian History

The figure of Arthur begins as a war hero, the praises of whom are sung in war poems by the Celts and the Welsh. Y Gododdin celebrates one particularly brave warrior, then says he "was no Arthur." The Triads are full of wonderful, courageous things Arthur did.

The most important early source for Arthur's deeds is Historia Brittonum, written by the monk Nennius in the 9th century. Nennius calls Arthur dux bellorum and tells us of 12 great battles Arthur fought. Although Nennius tells us the location of each battle, those locations are hard to come by these days. Scholars are still arguing over the locations. Even the agreed-on locations suggest that Arthur got around--literally--from Scotland to the lowlands of Wessex to Wales.

He fought everywhere. He won great victories. A strong tradition has him a Roman heldover who uses his knowledge of cavalry to rout the Saxons time and again, counting on their inexperience in fighting mounted men.

And even though the authors likely have exagerrated his deeds (killing 960 men single-handedly, for example), Arthur is likely to have been a bona fide war hero, a man who led his countrymen to victory time and again. It is certain that the Battle of Badon Hill, wherever and whenever it was, set the Saxon occupation back for a good many years. Whether Arthur fought at the battle is still not proved, but is generally believed.

Arthur was conceived amidst a war and was mortally wounded in a particularly bloody battle. His life was full of battle; it was the word of the times.

But was he a king in the traditional sense? The legends name him High King of Britain, a title held by his father, Uther Pendragon, and his uncle, Ambrosius Aurelianus. Noted historian Geoffrey Ashe identifies Arthur with Riothamus, who was called the King of the Britons even though he operated mostly in Gaul (Breton territory). A recent book by Graham Phillips and Martin Keatman identifies Arthur as the King of Powys and Gwynedd, two powerful kingdoms in Wales. The northern tradition has Arthur king of some or all of Scotland.

But these identifications would seem to point toward a man who held regional sway but not national advantage.

Beginning with Geoffrey of Monmouth, we see authors embellishing the tales to fit their own purposes. In Geoffrey, Arthur has a magical sword, Caliburn, and a powerful fortune-teller on his side, Merlin. Geoffrey tells us that Arthur conquers half the known world, including defeating a Roman emperor along the way. Much of Geoffrey has been proven to have been made up; is the rest fiction as well?

A conclusion can probably not be made on this subject because the evidence is just too sketchy. Arthur's being a battle commander is somewhat easier to prove, but again we suffer from too little reliable information.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: ambrosiusaurelianus; archaeology; england; geoffreyashe; geoffreyofmonmouth; godsgravesglyphs; grahamphillips; historiabrittonum; history; kingarthur; martinkeatman; nennius; offasdyke; riothamus; utherpendragon; wansdyke; watsdyke; ygododdin
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For anyone interested, the page this was posted from is heavily cross referenced and contains many links.
1 posted on 11/06/2005 7:31:29 AM PST by Hacksaw
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To: gcruse; larryjohnson; Lorianne; SunkenCiv; VOA; Peanut Gallery

I included your names since you were interested in the Templar thread I posted.


2 posted on 11/06/2005 7:33:20 AM PST by Hacksaw (Real men don't buy their firewood.)
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To: Hacksaw

3 posted on 11/06/2005 7:35:19 AM PST by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: billorites

Maybe he got his start cooking bread for the British troops.


4 posted on 11/06/2005 7:37:32 AM PST by Hacksaw (Real men don't buy their firewood.)
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To: Hacksaw
Arturius!!!!


5 posted on 11/06/2005 7:38:15 AM PST by rintense
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To: Hacksaw; blam

BTTT


6 posted on 11/06/2005 7:44:11 AM PST by Fiddlstix (Tagline Repair Service. Let us fix those broken Taglines. Inquire within(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Hacksaw
There's an invading army in France now. Only question is what to do about it.

From what I have read, in 5th Century AD Briton there wasn’t much difference between a “king”, and a “dux bellorum” or in Medieval Welsh “ameraudur” – from the Latin “imperator”
7 posted on 11/06/2005 7:47:57 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: R. Scott

Ignore the "There's an invading army in France now. Only question is what to do about it." It was a left over from a previous post.


8 posted on 11/06/2005 7:48:53 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Hacksaw

 

I thought he was a drunk.


9 posted on 11/06/2005 7:51:45 AM PST by Fintan (I'm planting my tagline bulbs for the spring.)
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To: Hacksaw

listen. I've seen every movie made about him and he was a king....


10 posted on 11/06/2005 7:59:20 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: Fintan
That's OK... I thought he was a hamster.

Didn't Richard Gere like Arthur alot?
11 posted on 11/06/2005 7:59:24 AM PST by dangus
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To: Hacksaw

thanks for the ping


12 posted on 11/06/2005 8:02:07 AM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: Fintan

I LOVED that scene when the butler said: "I'll alert the media." Ha,ha. Soooooo funny.


13 posted on 11/06/2005 8:02:34 AM PST by cubreporter
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To: rintense

Good entertainment, that film. I liked it because he is portrayed more as a battle commander than the stereotypical king and I've always thought that was the case.............


14 posted on 11/06/2005 8:03:07 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: Fintan
I thought he was a drunk.

Perhaps, but he made a king's ransom off the movie.

15 posted on 11/06/2005 8:14:40 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: InsureAmerica; Hacksaw
HERE IS A LINK to a portion of the index in the book "The History of the Kings of Britain" by Geoffrey of Monmouth. Not saying this is the be all end all on the Arthur discussion, but we read this book in my "Medieval Studies" class back in college. I wish I still had the book to post something more than just an index page.

My own opinion of the Arthur legend is somewhere between the classical romantic view of Camelot and the Knights of the round table and the film. (great flick BTW)

The book cited above tends toward the romanticized view, but does reference historical facts.

16 posted on 11/06/2005 8:19:34 AM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: infidel29

I'll have to find that book. I love medieval history. My ancestor, Charles, came from Ireland in the 1300's to England and his occupation was listed as "Knight"..


17 posted on 11/06/2005 8:24:10 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica

That link is from Amazon, it is available.


18 posted on 11/06/2005 8:25:08 AM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: TR Jeffersonian

ping


19 posted on 11/06/2005 8:26:34 AM PST by kalee
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To: InsureAmerica

...and "Knight" would be my dream job I think.


20 posted on 11/06/2005 8:27:29 AM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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