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THE GATHERING STORM IN IRAN
Yahoo! News ^ | Fri Aug 12, 6:21 PM ET | Richard Reeves

Posted on 08/12/2005 11:43:27 PM PDT by F14 Pilot

NEW YORK -- I have no doubt that the lying zealots running Iran these days are trying to produce nuclear weapons. And they are capable of using them.

These are bad people -- not the people of Iran, but the people running the country. During their long war with Iraq in the 1980s, the mullahs gave their own children little slips of paper they called "tickets to paradise" and then sent the kids running into minefields, blowing themselves up so that regular troops could advance into battle.

"Iran is not Iraq," said the Iranian envoy to the International Atomic Energy Agency, Cyrus Nasseri, last week. "And the United States is not the self-appointed policeman of the world."

There is a great deal to think about in the declaration. Iran is much bigger, potentially richer, and more dangerous than Iraq. Iran is not bluffing about weapons of mass destruction, as Saddam Hussein was when he led Iraq toward its own destruction. Iran has been working secretly on nuclear projects for at least 20 years. The Iranians say that all they are interested in is peaceful production of power, but if that were true, there would be no reason for two decades of secrecy. And Nasseri is right about the United States. We can't deal with this alone, and if we try, sooner or later, we will have to seek a military solution -- trying to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities with air strikes.

The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which created the IAEA as part of the United Nations, has been generally successful since it went into effect in 1970. Forty-three countries, including Iran, signed on back then, inviting sanctions if they violated the treaty. In effect, they ratified the status quo of the day, when there were five nuclear powers, the United States, the Soviet Union, Great Britain, France and China. Over the years, 145 more countries signed.

There were four principal hold-outs, India, Israel, Pakistan and South Africa. With reason. Those four were working on developing nuclear capacity or were determined to beg, borrow or steal it. South Africa gave up its program and signed the treaty in 1991. North Korea, which had signed in 1985 but had a secret nuclear program, announced in 2003 that it was withdrawing from the treaty.

Despite those failures, the treaty, and U.N. inspection and enforcement of it, has to be considered a triumph for U.S. and U.N. diplomacy. The fact is that "the bomb" has not been used since the end of World War II. (Americans seem to forget that we are the only country that has dropped the bomb, but everyone else remembers.) Most countries signed because they wanted verifiable certainty that their neighbors were not developing nuclear capacity. Poorer countries welcomed the agreement because developing such weapons would break their economies. The non-proliferation treaty solved a lot of problems for countries great and small.

India developed nuclear weapons because it aspired to be a regional superpower and wanted protection against Chinese bombs. Pakistan, with the United States looking away, wanted protection against India. Israel, with the United States looking away, wanted protection against its neighbors. North Korea, with help from Pakistan, was buying protection against South Korea and the United States. Iraq tried to develop nuclear weapons through the 1970s, but their single facility was destroyed by Israeli bombers in 1981, a raid the United States and the United Nations publicly condemned but privately applauded.

Now Iran. Its reasons are understandable. Having nuclear weapons is a badge of adulthood in this world. It is also a protection against the power of "the West." Nuclear countries are treated differently; nukes get respect. North Korea, an outlaw nation, is trying to blackmail the world right now. Without the assumption that they have nuclear-tipped missiles, the North Koreans' bombast would be laughable.

The crisis of the day is real. The irony is, too. The Iranian situation, complicated by the fact that it is an oil-producing country feeding the dependency of countries that would otherwise be its adversaries, starkly illustrates the inherent weakness of American unilateralism. Superpower is not enough. The United States, the West and the world have to try to persuade or bribe Iran to play by world rules. The alternative is preventive war on some level, and we are seeing the results of that policy just across the border in Iraq.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; eu3; france; freedom; germany; iaea; india; intel; iran; iranian; irannukes; iraq; islamic; mideast; military; missiles; mullahs; nuclear; pakistan; people; preemptive; religious; saddam; strike; tehran; uk; un; usa; war; weapon; wmd; world; zeaolots
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To: Khashayar

Iran, and it scared the cr@p out of him.


21 posted on 08/13/2005 1:12:47 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy; GermanBusiness

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1133638/posts

http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Persians%20Bush.htm


22 posted on 08/13/2005 1:13:29 AM PDT by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: A CA Guy

I don't think he met true Iranians though!


23 posted on 08/13/2005 1:13:59 AM PDT by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: Khashayar

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/opinion/05KRIS.html?8bl


24 posted on 08/13/2005 1:15:05 AM PDT by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: A CA Guy
Oh, that one instance when I was treated inhospitably? That was in a teahouse near the Isfahan bazaar, where I was interviewing religious conservatives. They were warm and friendly, but a group of people two tables away went out of their way to be rude, yelling at me for being an American propagandist. So I finally encountered hostility in Iran — from a table full of young Europeans."

From NY Times Article

25 posted on 08/13/2005 1:17:11 AM PDT by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: Khashayar

http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/2004/05/kristof-on-iran-and-euros.html


26 posted on 08/13/2005 1:17:51 AM PDT by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: Khashayar

He's been trying to get some true Iranian family out of Iran for years.
He has been having real bad trouble getting the young female family members out because the government bans them from that unless they are married because most of the young women want to leave anyway.

I have been hearing horror stories from this guy for a few years now K.


27 posted on 08/13/2005 1:21:57 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: softwarecreator
The day they get nukes then Armageddon is not far behind.
28 posted on 08/13/2005 1:22:04 AM PDT by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: Khashayar

This guy said it was the Iranians, they even tried to force a Koran on him when he mentioned he was a Chriatian. He took the Koran to avoid trouble. He read through it a bit and said they were CRAZY.

Sees us at war with them real soon.


29 posted on 08/13/2005 1:24:48 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: softwarecreator

Let me throw this scenario your way to think about. Do you think it may be possible that Bush knows that once the palestinians have thier complete foothold on Gaza, with the Jews GONE, that it could be more easily targeted without fear of collateral damages now that they know that terrorism pays and works and thier intifada kicks it up a notch or two? We can all agree that Bush and his advisors are NOT idiots. They have been very good at maintaining pleasant surprise for the skeptical. Whether it's Bush supporting Sharons plan, or, Sharon being pressured by the white house to start this plan, this move certainly had to have been well discussed and thought over.
To me, as it seems to you, we can't see why this has to and is happening to the Jewish people of Israel. Like it or not the bible clearly proclaims the Jewish people as "His own". It is also written that in the later days that the Israelites that were scattered among the nations, would be returned to the land that was promised to thier forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In case you weren't paying attention, Jews have been leaving whereever in the world they had been living, and returning to Israel in droves. The bible also says that Israel would NEVER be divided.
As a Christian, such as Bush professes with no reservations about it, he HAS to know this. Absolutely has to. If he did not, then certainly an advisor somewhere would've clued him in.
From the Bushes standpoint then, knowing this, the question is why?
Obviously, Iran is a growing threat. Probably more of a threat than what we would feel if we got to have access to the same privy information the President gets EVERYDAY. Bush has proven himself to deal with threats and use pre-emption. He also knows he has to help keep the republicans in control of the house and senate next year. There is NO WAY, at this particular point that he can come to the American people, or congress to authorize another premptive action against Iran, on the heels of Iraq, not to mention that are troops are spread thin enough as is. He would be laughed out of the U.N. The only way would be to allow the Israelis to do it, then back them up. The world will definately NOT be able to hide from the fact that the Jews are the victims, and NOT the palestinians as they claim they are. The world could not deny that Israel has taken the painful step of the pullout yet it did not bring peace, only more violence. All this would give all the justification Israel needs.
At this point it may SEEM that I'm mixing 2 seperate issues. One being a threat from Iran, secondly, the Israelis internal palestinian threat. Please follow along while I connect the two.
The whole of the muslim world has a well known and unhidden agenda, the complete elimination of the Jews. Just this last week there have been articles everywhere, including FR, that the newly elected leader of Iran has pledged his support to the palestinians during and after the pullout. Freshly crowned King Abdullah has also said basically the same thing.
Iran has been threatening to restart its uranium enrichment program. Enriched uranium has but one purpose. WEAPONS. And again, they continue to proudly say that they wish the destruction of Israel. They already have the missiles capable of delivering. History has proven that the first time Iran built a nuclear plant, they flattened it. They're ready to do it again. They, as does Bush, have a problem with the premption part again.
We know Iran has been, and is, a sponser of terrorists. We also know that Iran has been sending in insurgents to kill our troops in Iraq.
Is it not conceivable that once the pullout is completed, and the terrorists kick it up that notch or two, with help coming in from Iran, that we step in to back up Israel and take care of Iran once and for all? It wouldn't hurt my feelings none, it IS a growing menace that needs to be dealt with before it's too late and they hit first. They're not called "Mad Mullahs" for nothing.


30 posted on 08/13/2005 1:41:26 AM PDT by diverteach
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To: Khashayar; F14 Pilot
This has become a world wide struggle against militant Islam and it started with the overthrow of the Shah of Iran if you ask me. Thanks at least in part to Jimmy Carter. Khomeini's ascension to power is a huge part of his ineffective legacy.

If as you say Khashayar, the sentiments of the Iranian population are pro-American why have they tolerated these Mullahs of hate since the 70's? In the face of these murderous evil doers how can they remain silent?

In Iraq the bad guys like Al Zaqawri are finding aid and refuge among the very people we're trying to liberate and now we find that Iran is supplying them with the sophisticated weaponry they need and used last week to bomb our convoy and kill so many of our boys.

Something has to give. These pro-American people you say are there, are going to remain enslaved for a long, long time unless a leader emerges who can lead them away from this demonic cult. The mullahs are ruthless killers emboldened by their religion and they'll kill anyone who threatens their power.

Now what?

31 posted on 08/13/2005 2:03:49 AM PDT by ThirstyMan
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To: ThirstyMan
If as you say Khashayar, the sentiments of the Iranian population are pro-American why have they tolerated these Mullahs of hate since the 70's? In the face of these murderous evil doers how can they remain silent?

I guess Americans know little about what we have done since 1979 to get rid of the Mullahs.

Patriotic Iranians in regular Armed Forces staged a coup against the Mullahs in July 1980 which was brutally suppressed by IRGC units and 9000 thousands were executed

There were massive protests in 1981 against the regime which was oppressed by security forces

And lately, there have been numerous protests in Iran since 1999 every year. Many died and thousands were detained.

I don't blame you for your lack of knowledge on what we did, but I do blame your MSM for misinformation.

In 2003, thousands came out to the streets to protest against the regime.

We, Iranians, have used any opportunity to voice our anger, dissatisfaction and unhappiness with the mad mullahs but we are alone

We are really feeling left alone

EU and UN side with the regime

President Bush is letting this new idiot Ahmadinejad in the US for a UN meeting

Right now, hundreds have died fighting the regime in Western Iran

yesterday, there was another protest in Tehran to support Akbar Ganji, jailed Iranian dissident, but it was also suppressed by security forces

What we need is weapons, a small scale strike against the Mullahs strongholds and then we will be liberated, and your soldiers won't die in Iraq

32 posted on 08/13/2005 2:24:46 AM PDT by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: Khashayar

well put


33 posted on 08/13/2005 2:36:28 AM PDT by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
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To: GermanBusiness
FR and Instapundit make it seem like 95% of the population of Iran loves America and wants to overthrow their government

Sorta like those flower and candy throwing 'rakis that ended up thowing RPGs and IEDs.
34 posted on 08/13/2005 3:11:53 AM PDT by milemark (Proud to be an infidel.)
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To: ThirstyMan

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/08/11/iran11619.htm

Iran: Security Forces Kill Kurdish Protestors


35 posted on 08/13/2005 3:30:56 AM PDT by Khashayar (No Banana Allowed!)
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To: ThirstyMan

i wouldn't take at face the fact they were elected by a landslide. Totalitarian nations tend to have elections decided by rather large margins of victory. About the only person who would call that election fair is Jimmah Carter.


36 posted on 08/13/2005 3:43:33 AM PDT by wiggen
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To: A CA Guy

Well if most of the youmg women want to leave...there's your answer that at least a good portion of Iranians are pro-western or pro-change. You know a "Lorena Bobbit" Threat movement involving the women in the Mid-East might do a lot to change things over there!


37 posted on 08/13/2005 4:03:30 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (Even when a dog discovers he is barking up a wrong tree, he can still take a leak on it!)
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To: ThirstyMan
"The Iranian situation is now coming into focus as the free world's real dilemma!"

So long as no action is taken by either Iran, Israel or the United States the "dilemma" will persist. The Iranian government was sanctioned by the Iranian people so their commitment to produce nuclear bombs is the will of an islamofacist people. It's time to put the "dilemma" to rest.
38 posted on 08/13/2005 4:31:44 AM PDT by eakole
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To: ThirstyMan

These "bad people" were elected in a landslide election like a Soviet Dictator used to be elected....

Of the Mullah candidates there was only Dumb and Dumber to choose from and voting is madatory.....

Fairly predictable outcome.....

The population of Iran has strongly indicated that wish to be free of the Mullahs however the Mullahs retain control of the Military, Secret Police etc....

There have been numerous violent uprisings and clashes but the controlling authority has put down dissent brutally and effectively.

One of the Freepers is over in Tehran and reports in regularly on an Iranian thread....They're generally a interesting read...

NeverGore :^)


39 posted on 08/13/2005 4:51:21 AM PDT by nevergore (“It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.”)
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To: diverteach

I didn't finish reading your posts, but I agree:

I THINK THE EVACUATION OF GAZA IS SO WE WILL HAVE A CLEAR FIELD OF FIRE to wipe them all out there. All of them disappear as soon as the next major terror attack happens in the USA. I assume everyone in the Middle East knows this is why the Jews are pulling out of Gaza.


40 posted on 08/13/2005 4:59:48 AM PDT by GermanBusiness
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