Posted on 08/04/2005 9:43:31 AM PDT by Alex Marko
JERUSALEM (AP) -- A passenger on an Israeli bus opened fire on Thursday, killing three people, an Israeli police spokesman told Channel 2 TV, in an apparent argument among passengers. Five other people were wounded. The TV report said the gunman, in an Israeli army uniform, was captured by police. The gunfire erupted as the bus was on a road in Israel's north near the town of Shfaram. The spokesman told Channel 2 that the gunman was a soldier, three people were killed and several others wounded, and the gunman was captured. Channel 2 said the incident was not a terror attack.
(Excerpt) Read more at edition.cnn.com ...
I'll pass that along to him...he's a bright boy. Was given Smicha at age 21...and I agree with you, Torah learning IS what keeps the nation alive.
"Married men study in Kollel...unmarried men study in a Yeshiva...several Yeshivot have their own Kollel. However, typically, married students, study together. They don't usually study with unmarried students."
What do they do for food, clothing, shelter?
That's sick.
Google is giving "News" status to the terrorist supporting ISM. So we kind of know where they stand.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1455991/posts
Are you as gullible when it comes to the news trashing the US?
How many hits do you get when you enter "Abu Ghraib" and "torture"?
You are confusing groups of people here. By and large --
1) "Settlers" (I hate that term since it is used to marginalize and deligitimize a brave group of people) are not the ultra Orthodox Hasidim, also known as Haredim, who get army deferments because they study in Yeshivas
2) "Settlers" do serve in the army and make up an inordinate percentage of the Officer Corps and Elite Units
3) "Settlers" do work. Note the dismantling of the "settlements" in Gaza is often bemoaned, among other reasons, for the loss of its produtivity, its thriving agricultural industry
4) The non-working group you are talking about Hasidim/Haredim live in very Orthodox communities in the heart of Israel such as in the heart of Jerusalem (Meir Shearim) or in Tel Aviv (Bnei Brak). Their non-service in the army and welfare status is a source of great resentment and controversy in Israel.
It also unfairly tarnishes the image of Orthodox "settlers" who are another group entirely.
And finally, any community/country can have some one who goes off the deep end. Israel had Baruch Goldstein in 1994. I think the generalizations come from the rarity of Jews committing acts such as this at the same time they are held to an impossible standard of perfection expected of no one else.
Your points are well taken, and I agree that a lot of the controversy in this thread resulted from the conflating of Jews who live in the West Bank and Gaza with ("Settlers") with Hareidi Jews who study in kollels.
Thank you for noting the confusion and clearing it up.
A lot of the problem in this thread is from people immediately willing to look at one crazy as representative of an entire group, whether it is the infamous "settlers" or the ulra orthodox Haredi, who whatever one thinks of full time Yeshiva learning are in no way violent.
Right, one crazy as representative of an entire group. Indicative of those who bring preconceived notions to the conversation. As I noted earlier, Bigotry 101
From what I've read, he morphed into a religios Jew in about a month, after getting kicked out of the IDF. The Cliff Notes version.
At the Kollel (some but not all), the student receives a small monthly stipend. In my nephews case, he was married about a month ago. His wife, a terrific girl, was adamant that she wanted my nephew to continue studying. She is an English teacher and was adamant that she was going to provide for the family.
She resolutely from an early age apparently, told her parents that she wanted to marry a "talmid chacham" a Torah scholar. It was my nephews's intention after his Rabbinic studies to attend Yeshiva University in NY. He had been accepted into their Physics program (he's no nudnik!).
His wife, bless her, nixed that. She wants him to study.
Of course, this is not necessarily a typical situation but it is also not unusual. There are many families that live hand to mouth. However, it is their belief that Torah study is of paramount importance and that is how they choose to live. There are many charitable organizations that try to help these folks. To those organizations it is a labor of love. The fact that they can help facilitate the learning of a "chacham" (a learned man) is in itself a "mitzvah", a good deed. They also do qualify for government assistance, which is the source of much controversy in Israel.
Sorry for the long post, but it's important that we realize that orthodox families are not "sponges" soaking up government largess. Are there some that do? Unfortunately, yes. And that is a source of great embarrassment to the Orthodox community. They majority study because of their love of Torah. It is what we are commanded to do.
And thank G-d that they do study because it is they that have built the Jewish nation out of the ashes of the Holocaust.
I guess now we will have to reset the sign:
"3,650 Days Since a Jewish Terrorist Attack"
I suppose I could plug that into Church Sign Generator. No one has come up with a Synagogue Sign Generator.
Sounds like a deranged guy to me.
Take that from someone that was about as secular as a Jew could be, who realized after first chatting with, then talking with and then studying with a remarkable man who I am proud to say is my Rabbi. He brought me back spiritually.
Did they plant orchards, begin kibbutzim, and fight and die in the Wars? They sure did...but they also learned and taught me what it is to be a Jew.
There is a Jewish tradition based on the OT blessings given to each tribe that while some engage in business they may form a partnership to support others who engage in religious learning. IOW some nurture the physical and some nurture the spiritual well being of the Nation of Israel.
The two tribes are Issachar and Zebulon
Of my 6 sons, only one still learns in kollel part time while working as a teacher. Another, decided he wasn't cut out for learning, has finished his IDF tour and is now working at a construction job, doing a job "Israelis don't want to do." And guess what, he is Haredi, though you would never think so from all the stereotyping.
Oh and speaking of stereotypes, even though he lives next door to a gay club and has been propositioned thousands of times by stupid deviants, he has never stabbed a gay or even punched one, in spite of being repeatedly provoked (I won't say he has never used cuss words).
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