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Gunman(Jewish Settler) kills 3 on Israel bus
CNN ^

Posted on 08/04/2005 9:43:31 AM PDT by Alex Marko

JERUSALEM (AP) -- A passenger on an Israeli bus opened fire on Thursday, killing three people, an Israeli police spokesman told Channel 2 TV, in an apparent argument among passengers. Five other people were wounded. The TV report said the gunman, in an Israeli army uniform, was captured by police. The gunfire erupted as the bus was on a road in Israel's north near the town of Shfaram. The spokesman told Channel 2 that the gunman was a soldier, three people were killed and several others wounded, and the gunman was captured. Channel 2 said the incident was not a terror attack.

(Excerpt) Read more at edition.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: druze; gaza; israel; kach; middleeast; settlers
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To: MoochPooch

I'll pass that along to him...he's a bright boy. Was given Smicha at age 21...and I agree with you, Torah learning IS what keeps the nation alive.


121 posted on 08/04/2005 12:54:22 PM PDT by sofaman
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To: sofaman

"Married men study in Kollel...unmarried men study in a Yeshiva...several Yeshivot have their own Kollel. However, typically, married students, study together. They don't usually study with unmarried students."

What do they do for food, clothing, shelter?


122 posted on 08/04/2005 1:06:23 PM PDT by monday
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To: Teplukin
"my honor is my loyalty".

That's sick.

123 posted on 08/04/2005 1:30:03 PM PDT by Fatalist (60 in 06)
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To: FormerACLUmember

Google is giving "News" status to the terrorist supporting ISM. So we kind of know where they stand.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1455991/posts

Are you as gullible when it comes to the news trashing the US?

How many hits do you get when you enter "Abu Ghraib" and "torture"?


124 posted on 08/04/2005 1:48:52 PM PDT by dervish
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To: Rodney King; Piranha; sofaman

You are confusing groups of people here. By and large --

1) "Settlers" (I hate that term since it is used to marginalize and deligitimize a brave group of people) are not the ultra Orthodox Hasidim, also known as Haredim, who get army deferments because they study in Yeshivas

2) "Settlers" do serve in the army and make up an inordinate percentage of the Officer Corps and Elite Units

3) "Settlers" do work. Note the dismantling of the "settlements" in Gaza is often bemoaned, among other reasons, for the loss of its produtivity, its thriving agricultural industry

4) The non-working group you are talking about Hasidim/Haredim live in very Orthodox communities in the heart of Israel such as in the heart of Jerusalem (Meir Shearim) or in Tel Aviv (Bnei Brak). Their non-service in the army and welfare status is a source of great resentment and controversy in Israel.

It also unfairly tarnishes the image of Orthodox "settlers" who are another group entirely.

And finally, any community/country can have some one who goes off the deep end. Israel had Baruch Goldstein in 1994. I think the generalizations come from the rarity of Jews committing acts such as this at the same time they are held to an impossible standard of perfection expected of no one else.


125 posted on 08/04/2005 1:53:59 PM PDT by dervish
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To: dervish

Your points are well taken, and I agree that a lot of the controversy in this thread resulted from the conflating of Jews who live in the West Bank and Gaza with ("Settlers") with Hareidi Jews who study in kollels.

Thank you for noting the confusion and clearing it up.


126 posted on 08/04/2005 2:04:54 PM PDT by Piranha
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To: Piranha; SJackson; Alouette; Sabramerican; Esther Ruth

A lot of the problem in this thread is from people immediately willing to look at one crazy as representative of an entire group, whether it is the infamous "settlers" or the ulra orthodox Haredi, who whatever one thinks of full time Yeshiva learning are in no way violent.


127 posted on 08/04/2005 2:24:10 PM PDT by dervish
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To: dervish
A lot of the problem in this thread is from people immediately willing to look at one crazy as representative of an entire group,

Right, one crazy as representative of an entire group. Indicative of those who bring preconceived notions to the conversation. As I noted earlier, Bigotry 101

128 posted on 08/04/2005 2:48:32 PM PDT by SJackson (America...thru dissent and protest lost the ability to mobilize a will to win, Col Bui Tin, PAVN)
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To: Yehuda
Cause its so much more fun to pump religious jew-bashing posts.

From what I've read, he morphed into a religios Jew in about a month, after getting kicked out of the IDF. The Cliff Notes version.

129 posted on 08/04/2005 2:53:17 PM PDT by SJackson (America...thru dissent and protest lost the ability to mobilize a will to win, Col Bui Tin, PAVN)
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To: monday
Sorry, I should have elaborated. Most Yeshivas and Kollels are privately funded. I am not at all sure whether or not they receive any government funds. However, I do know that if a family is able to pay for their child to go to the Yeshiva, they are expected to do so. However, donations are usually solicited in surprisingly low-key ways.

At the Kollel (some but not all), the student receives a small monthly stipend. In my nephews case, he was married about a month ago. His wife, a terrific girl, was adamant that she wanted my nephew to continue studying. She is an English teacher and was adamant that she was going to provide for the family.

She resolutely from an early age apparently, told her parents that she wanted to marry a "talmid chacham" a Torah scholar. It was my nephews's intention after his Rabbinic studies to attend Yeshiva University in NY. He had been accepted into their Physics program (he's no nudnik!).

His wife, bless her, nixed that. She wants him to study.

Of course, this is not necessarily a typical situation but it is also not unusual. There are many families that live hand to mouth. However, it is their belief that Torah study is of paramount importance and that is how they choose to live. There are many charitable organizations that try to help these folks. To those organizations it is a labor of love. The fact that they can help facilitate the learning of a "chacham" (a learned man) is in itself a "mitzvah", a good deed. They also do qualify for government assistance, which is the source of much controversy in Israel.

Sorry for the long post, but it's important that we realize that orthodox families are not "sponges" soaking up government largess. Are there some that do? Unfortunately, yes. And that is a source of great embarrassment to the Orthodox community. They majority study because of their love of Torah. It is what we are commanded to do.

And thank G-d that they do study because it is they that have built the Jewish nation out of the ashes of the Holocaust.

130 posted on 08/04/2005 2:56:05 PM PDT by sofaman
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To: dervish
Alot of the problem in this thread is...

One person goes off his rocker (the murderer) and all of a sudden all the nazis here become arm chair shrinks, foaming at the mouth - so anxious to trash all religious Jews, Calling God's Chosen "homicidal paranoid psychotics"!, lazy leaches sucking from society and draining a system, insane subversive idiots!!! who refuse to submit to the orders of Rice/Bush who are NOT even their elected leaders! Hmmmm?

It IS getting worse, but the very least we can do is call a spade a spade! Appeasement comes in many forms. Bullying takes on many forms.

***

Sorry, but there a higher than baseline population of homicidal paranoid PSYCHOTICS among the settlers.

8 posted on 08/04/2005 11:57:52 AM CDT by FormerACLUmember

***

Isreal's subsidizing the radicals who don't work, but rather sit around all day with their pals in the religious schools is going to come back to haunt them.

People who have to work, take care of kids, make food, etc. don't have time to fill their heads with crazy thoughts, and also understand better the consequences of their actions.

13 posted on 08/04/2005 12:01:09 PM CDT by Rodney King (

***

Former_ACLU IS 100% correct. Lots of these settlers are INSANE. It is high time for them to pull out, and start heeding the wishes of Sec'y of State Rice. I am weary of these IDIOTS doing their best to SUBVERT President Bush.

18 posted on 08/04/2005 12:03:01 PM CDT by Teplukin
131 posted on 08/04/2005 3:01:22 PM PDT by Esther Ruth (That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.)
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To: sofaman
"And thank G-d that they do study because it is they that have built the Jewish nation out of the ashes of the Holocaust."

Really? What, specifically, did they do?
132 posted on 08/04/2005 3:12:03 PM PDT by monday
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To: SJackson

I guess now we will have to reset the sign:

"3,650 Days Since a Jewish Terrorist Attack"


133 posted on 08/04/2005 3:28:58 PM PDT by Alouette ("Peace and justice" = Leftspeak for terrorism and ethnic cleansing.)
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Comment #134 Removed by Moderator

To: Alouette
"3,650 Days Since a Jewish Terrorist Attack"

I suppose I could plug that into Church Sign Generator. No one has come up with a Synagogue Sign Generator.

135 posted on 08/04/2005 3:39:45 PM PDT by SJackson (America...thru dissent and protest lost the ability to mobilize a will to win, Col Bui Tin, PAVN)
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To: Alex Marko

Sounds like a deranged guy to me.


136 posted on 08/04/2005 3:41:33 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences)
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To: Alex Marko
"This settler was part of a ultra-right religious sect of juadaism" No, he was not a member of an ultra-right religious sect. He was a reputed member(recent) of a outlawed political group formed in the United States. " Some believe that Israel shouldn't even legally exist." Are you one of them? This guy is comparable to McVeigh" No. he was a mentally unstable individual acting alone, with no message or purpose attributable to his actions "Why do you defend him?" No, made the comment that he was a mentally unstable individual that killed three people and injured five more. Reading is fundamental, comprehension is priceless.
137 posted on 08/04/2005 4:01:17 PM PDT by FFIGHTER
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To: monday
Specifically? They learned and they taught.

Take that from someone that was about as secular as a Jew could be, who realized after first chatting with, then talking with and then studying with a remarkable man who I am proud to say is my Rabbi. He brought me back spiritually.

Did they plant orchards, begin kibbutzim, and fight and die in the Wars? They sure did...but they also learned and taught me what it is to be a Jew.

138 posted on 08/04/2005 4:08:05 PM PDT by sofaman
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To: Righty_McRight; monday; sofaman

There is a Jewish tradition based on the OT blessings given to each tribe that while some engage in business they may form a partnership to support others who engage in religious learning. IOW some nurture the physical and some nurture the spiritual well being of the Nation of Israel.

The two tribes are Issachar and Zebulon


139 posted on 08/04/2005 4:31:09 PM PDT by dervish
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To: sofaman
My husband learned in kollel for many years, although after the first few years he became a teacher and continued to learn part time.

Of my 6 sons, only one still learns in kollel part time while working as a teacher. Another, decided he wasn't cut out for learning, has finished his IDF tour and is now working at a construction job, doing a job "Israelis don't want to do." And guess what, he is Haredi, though you would never think so from all the stereotyping.

Oh and speaking of stereotypes, even though he lives next door to a gay club and has been propositioned thousands of times by stupid deviants, he has never stabbed a gay or even punched one, in spite of being repeatedly provoked (I won't say he has never used cuss words).

140 posted on 08/04/2005 4:55:19 PM PDT by Alouette ("Peace and justice" = Leftspeak for terrorism and ethnic cleansing.)
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