Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005
NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.
"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."
The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.
"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."
It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.
"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.
He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."
Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."
Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.
"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.
James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.
"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."
Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.
"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.
Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "
He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.
Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
What happened to just about everybody born prior to the printing press and general literacy? It seems to me that you are condemning a whole lot of people (almost the entire population of the world for over a thousand years) to hell because they didn't have access to the Bible or couldn't read.
Well, your first appeal is to the word of Augustine. He was a fine Christian, but his words are not given by inspiration. You then appeal to a book in the Apochrypha (sp?), a book certainly not accepted in all Bibles, nor in the Jewish scriptures, books which are generally fine as literature but not generally accepted as the inspired Word of God.
Folks, I'm really and truly out this time. Arguing with Catholics is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. Pretty soon you look at the pig and realize he is enjoying it.
I am not. Have a nice day.
The hate seethes through your post.
****
I don't see any hate in Okies post......but then I know you quite well.....you are of the same spirit that led the inquisitions, and the crusades. Relax Conservative....you'll get your chance to slaughter a few more Believers...the RCC is going to rule the earth again, actually pretty much does at this point. Just need to get all those little laws put into effect as to what constitutes a terrorist and there ya go, your killing spree can begin AGAIN........at least till a few more are martyred. But you still lose and your counterfeit church and all her daughters will be destroyed by the hand of God. No believer will lift a finger, God will do it. And yet God still cries out...
"COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE."
He is merciful right up till the end.
So it's your assertion that Catholics don't follow Christ? Funny, I don't know any fellow Catholics who fit your description - but don't let the facts get in your way.
Alrighty then...
You feeling okay?
Much of what I see posted here argues from logic. Logic is fine, but it does have its limitations. To illustrate, Luigi Barzini in his book "The Italians" (published 1964) tells this story: a very wealthy Sicilian made a vow to make a pilgramage by foot to Jerusalem. As he contemplated this he realized that he would be absent for a very long time. So, he calculated the distance overland from the mainland of Italy to Jerusalem and then measured the distance around his estate. Dividing the greater distance by the smaller distance, his logic said that he would fulfil his vow if he walked around his estate that many times.
LOL!
Seldom have I seen a poster here go so far out of his/her way to prove another poster right.
What about Catholics scares these people so much?
There is no need to resort to ad hominems. I know my Bible. I can read it in Hebrew and Greek. Those who claim that they don't need anyone else to mediate, never fail to ask someone else to baptize them. Some day, they will all realize, that they don't need to get up on Sunday mornings. They can baptize themselves, make their own communion, preach to themselves, etc. Or maybe at least get together for a social, so as not to "forsake the assembling of yourselves together". Or, maybe they will realize that individualism is a rejection of the doctrine of the Body of Christ, wherein not all are the head.
*****
So tell me A8 WHAT is the great deception of the end times?
So great "if it were possible even the very elect of God will be deceived."
You educate me, on everything that we have been warned about.
I have no idea...I've been getting an education these last couple weeks on how much perceptions differ with the reality of what Roman Catholics believe. I had no idea such hatred existed toward Catholics.
Jhn 6:64-65
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
No one will believe unless they accept the testimony of the Holy Spirit!
Mar 3:28-29
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Jesus Christ's death on the cross covered the sins of ALL mankind. Rejection of this truth as revealed by the Holy Spirit means a person rejects the pardon provided by God!
From a prior post of mine (with relevant additions):
Part of understanding scripture is to compare scripture with scripture.
Your desire to trump a persons ability to choose is patently unbiblical. A person can have a choice and God can know what that choice will be before they make it, for God inhabits eternity.
Consider this passage:
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Two things to consider and remain scripturally faithful:
1. God inhabits eternity; therefore He knows who will choose His Son for Salvation.(Therefore the Father inhabiting eternity knows who will not reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit regarding Christ)
2. A person who does not choose to believe is condemned.
Moses was instructed to raise a brass serpent on a pole for the Israelis to look to if they were bitten by the snakes. God provided the provision for the Israelis Salvation. If God hadn't instructed Moses to lift the Brass Serpent, those bitten would have all died. Therefore God's provision of the Brass Serpent was Salvation to those bitten. If an Israelis was bitten, but refused to look too the Brass Serpent for Salvation they died. If an Israelis was bitten but chose to trust Gods provision and looked too the Brass Serpent they were healed. God provided the remedy, the persons only action was to try out Gods remedy by looking. They had a choice!
God, inhabiting eternity, knew which Israelis would look to His provision and be healed before He created the universe. But that does not mean He pre-scripted their decision before they made it. And it does not mean we get any credit for our own salvation.
Notice how the Holy Spirit explains both perspectives in this passage.
Jhn 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
The Gospel is a message of persuasion! We are not automatons. We have a personal relationship with God!
Since I teach logic, among other things, at a university, I can tell you logic isn't "his" or mine or anyone else's. It is a public science, just as mathematics is public. His "reasoning" led him astray, only because he reasoned poorly, as does the child who concludes that 2+3=6. If he merely vowed to walk a certain distance, then he could fulfill that vow by walking that distance, over any location. If he vowed to walk to a certain location, then just walking the equivalent distance would not fulfill the vow. That is what careful reasoning shows. There are many many people who don't know how to reason; they come into my courses every semester.
I'm going out of town for the next four days, so I can't continue the dialogue here. Cheers!
-A8
Alrighty then...
You feeling okay?
****
Yep...watch and see NittanyLion...it will be as easy as killing Terry was. I bet you didn't think you would ever see that either. In a world that thinks nothing of slaughtering unborn babies which are a gift from God, that killing those who won't get with the program of the world's system is going to be so hard?
The Pope that rises out of Africa...he is the one who will consume the minds of men.
BUMP
*shrug*
If you say so.
listen to the rocks?
*****
I'd rather listen to rocks than Satan's lies. I'd rather sit alone than sit in idolotry and paganism, there are others out there just like me who know and see and watch...just like we were told to watch. We aren't hurting anyone, we are just warning and watching. But that infuriates the religious just like Christ infuriated the religious.
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