Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005
NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.
"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."
The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.
"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."
It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.
"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.
He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."
Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."
Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.
"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.
James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.
"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."
Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.
"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.
Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "
He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.
Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
Funny I have been Catholic my whole life, Catholic Schools and functions and I have NEVER known a Catholic who believed that. Remember the admonition against bearing false witness against your neighbor sweetie. I think you ought to do a quick count of these "Catholics" you know before you post that lie again.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
This preacher and those who lie about others beliefs is a ravening wolf.
Don't worry about these good folks!
They're saved! ;o)
Instead of making a decision about Catholicism based on a thread on FR why don't you actually read the Cathechism? Get your answers straight from the source you wish to learn about. The Cathechism gives incredible amounts of detail for the things we believe.
Neither. Rely on the Word of God.
'Now we [God's elect individuals / The Bride of Christ / The invisible universal church of God] have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, in order that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God' (I Cor. 2:12).
1 John 2:27
Romans 8:28-30; 9:11-13; Acts 13:48; Eph. 1:4-6
John 6:65
BTW, I'm curious. If Rome cannot affirm the authority of Scripture apart from the caveat that tradition is necessary to explain the Bible's true meaning, can you explain how that does NOT make tradition a superior authority to Scripture?
And since Rome claims infallibility for itself, can you explain how that doesn't make the Scriptures ultimately irrelevant.
That's a great joke, too.
You can try to dissuade Christians from loving and trusting Jesus, but it really won't work. You can try to call us from the Word, but our Lord's "It is written" will remain our motto. You can tell us we mustn't care about the lost, mustn't care aout folks whose false religions offer false hopes and false comfort, but Jesus won't let us.
Sometime, some quiet time, just you and God, really think through the Scriptures in the thirty-three questions
And if you find that you can't even bring yourself to do that, at least some time, try to figure out why. If the Word didn't scare you, repel you, threaten you, why would you not want to think about it? Be honest; just you, and the God who can't be fooled.
Dan
So the miracles Peter worked in God's name made him a cult member?
C'mon, it's so much easier to learn about the Catholic faith from someone you know who is a C&E Catholic or from your mother's friend's half-sister who told you what Catholics believe (even though she's never set foot in a Catholic church) than to actually study it for yourself.
I doubt it. Most church pew warmers don't have the first clue about the fact that there are really only two religions in the whole world. LOL.
It's not the Word that repels me, it's YOU and people like you--smug, ignorant, and arrogant, presenting a style of Christianity that was unknown in apostolic times and unknown anywhere in the world until maybe 200 years ago as the ONLY possible form of Christianity, and denying even the name Christian to anyone who belongs to the oldest and largest Christian denomination.
My Church, by contrast, recognizes that anyone who is baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a Christian, regardless of whatever doctrinal differences may exist. This is why Protestant converts to Catholicism are not baptized. Indeed, Eastern Orthodox converts who have received all the sacraments of initiation are not given any sacrament before joining the Church, they just need to make a brief public profession of faith.
Fortunately, most evangelical Christians are not like you. They can argue differences in doctrine without saying the Pope is in Hell or "the Antichrist" or denying that I am a Christian. In other words, they recognize the importance of charity and humility.
And so it ever goes. Christians point Romanists to Christ, and God's Word, and Romanists become apoplectic.
The thought of trusting Christ to save you infuriates you, the thought of accepting God's Word as sufficient enrages you -- and you feel okay about that.
You'll just have to excuse Christians for not feeling okay about it, and for praying for your soul while there's hope, regardless.
Dan
-A8
So how far back does this sinless line go? After all, Mary can't be sinless unless her mother was sinless. And her mother couldn't have been sinless unless Mary's grandmother was sinless. And so on and so on. So who was the first sinless woman?
John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" The Word is not just the contents of a book commonly known as the bible. The New Testament is a collection of works, written a couple decades after the founding of the Church, that aided the early Christians in their practice of Chistocentric catholic religion.
BTW, Rome is a place. A place cannot make infallible proclaimation. Infallibility is a doctine bounded in the vicar and only under specific bounds. Your straw man is indicative of either an elementary level of understanding or purposeful misrepresentation.
Agreed, but considering how large my wife's family is, and the fact that I know several others who are Catholic, I was surprised at how little they did know. I don't claim to be anywhere near an expert on the Catachism (and I'm not Catholic), but I have a better understanding than many of my Catholic relatives. And any of then don't agree with everything that is inthe Catachism. I have trouble understanding how one can claim to be a member of any denomination if they don't adhere to the basic beliefs of that faith. It is almost like some of them look upon the Catholic church as a social club, or as something that they are a member of because their parents and grandparent were members. I don't agree with some of the things, but I at least understand what the thought process is. (I have the same problem with some friends of mine who are very conservative when you talk with them about politics, yet always blindly vote democratic. Why? Because their parents and grandparents were democrats, so they vote that way because that is just how they are, and are really unaware that the candidate they voted for holds the opposite of their personal views).
Ideally we're supposed to be able to explain everything in order to evangelize...
I agree to a point. The more you know, the more confidence one can have when sharing the gospel. Sometimes though knowledge can be a hindrance. Trying to answer every question someone has can lead one on "rabbit trails" attempting to lead the conversation away from the Gospel. The blind man who had his sight restore is one of the strongest witnesses to come before the Pharisees. And he admitted he didn't know the answers to all their questions, yet he made a bold and wonderful witness. The madman healed by Jesus desired to follow Jesus, yet Jesus told him to return to his home and share his experience with others. The healed madman didn't undergo vast training to answer questions. He was just told to go and tell others.
I myself have recently completed a training course in evangelism. One of the main things we are taught is not to allow our bible knowledge to hinder us. To use discretion when sharing the Gospel. When witnessing, if a question asked will help in leading one to Christ, we are told to go ahead and answer it, but if the person asking the question it doing so in a way to divert the message, we should keep the "main" thing the "main" thing: Keep to the sharing of the Gospel and make the other questions secondary... something that you can use to followup with. A Person you are sharing the Gospel with might ask a question that would lead you away from the topic. I will tell them "Hey, that's a good question. Let me research it and get back to you with an answer". If they are truly interested, they will allow you a means to contact them, and it gives you a chance to contact that person again to further witness.
We need to keep to the essential message -
These are not easy things for us to do, but going to the Cross was not and easy thing for HIM to do either. We need to love the Lord as he loves us.
I notice you couldn't answer the question. So did others. LOL
You and the apparently important "others" may want to add logic to your list of things to study.
I am a Christian, not a "Romanist." And I am proud to belong to the same Christian church that produced men and women of the caliber of Francis of Assisi, Vincent de Paul, Isaac Jogues, Katherine Drexel, Maksymilian Kolbe, Mother Teresa, and John Paul II, and countless others like them.
>>>>>>>>The thought of trusting Christ to save you infuriates you
Actually, no. I've been trusting Christ for a long time now.
>>>>>You'll just have to excuse Christians for not feeling okay about it, and for praying for your soul while there's hope, regardless.
Please spare me your phony prayers. When I need someone to pray for me, I'll ask my friends to do it, both the ones on this earth and the ones I mentioned in my first paragraph above.
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