Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).

Knoxville News-Sentinel Co. ^ | April 13, 2005 | JEANNINE F. HUNTER

[Dean Baker]

Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.

[FeliciaCat]

And this "Reverend" calls himself a Christian. Riiiight.

[BriarBey]

Wouldn't you say that this means, be ye not of this world, but of the life to follow? As the Amish do.

These earthly politics and bickerings are silly diversions. The true faith is in the soul's everlasting

*****
The kingdom of God is not of this world. The kingdoms that have been set up by man are anti-christ...against Christ. Satan offered those kingdoms to Christ when he tempted Him in the wilderness.
He said you would know a believer by their fruits. Love, joy, peace, patience, temperance, long-suffering, ect. Look at the offense that is taken and the way people defend their man taught doctrines, and their denominational kingdoms. Look at the confusion that is in this forum, God is not the author of confusion, nor the Father of it.

Look at a 501 (3) c tax exempt contract and you will see how it all ties to a governmental system and the perks. Follow the money, because the love of it,is the root of ALL evil.

"There is a way that SEEMS right unto man but leads to DESTRUCTION."

It was religious Pharisees and political Rome that joined to crucify Christ. "THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN."

[safisoft]

Well, no, as a matter of fact, all of the writers of the Christian Bible weren't Jewish; St. Luke was a Gentile.

Please provide your proof for this. The fact is he MIGHT have been Gentile, and it is more likely because he claims EYEWITNESS status that he was not.

As for the First Century believers not being Jewish, you are using an anacronistic argument. Just because modern Judaism considers anyone who believes in "Jesus" to no longer be Jewish, does not mean that is the way it was in the First Century. Read Acts 21 and 22. Paul did not say he USE TO BE a Pharisee, he was a Pharisee. The fact is that believers in Y'shua were considered a nominal sect within Judaism well into the 4th Century. Jerome himself tells of the sect of Judaism called "Nazarenes". It was the theft by the western/Greek "church" that gave us the great apostasy.

[johnb838]

Low church isn't meant as a slur, it refers to the idea that a lot of props and pomp and circumstance are not necessary to worship God. Particularly in the Episcopal church we have low church, which resembles closely a normal Presbyterian service, except they probably take communion more, versus high church which may have crucifixes, genuflection, "smells & bells" (incense), ornate chasubles for the priests and matching altar linen, ornate wood carvings, confession, latin anthems & kyrie, and other "high" churchy sorts of things that the low church finds not only unnecessary, but at times rather offensive. Sometimes these churches are called "spiky" because they tend to have high pointy steeples.

Again, I have nothing against the low church. I like the high church because it reminds me of the magic and the power of the church through the centuries, during which, revisionist history aside, it has more often been a tool for good and for civilization than otherwise.

The only thing that worries me is that while *I* can see through the costumes and remember that the only important thing is knowing and sharing the Love of Jesus Christ, and following His Commandments, I worry that some others may not be so discerning. For example in the Catholic church, while I and most everyone who posts here understands that we are not to worship the pope and the saints, does the peasant in Rio De Janeiro understand as well? Are we causing others to stumble with our piety? Don't know. The Liturgy saves lives, I'm convinced of that.

[Elsie]

I read and study Torah in Hebrew.

 

Good; then you probably know WHICH 'scriptures' are referred to here:

 

NIV Acts 1:16-17
16.  and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus--
 17.  he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

 

 

NIV Acts 8:32-35
32.  The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture : "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
 33.  In his humiliation he was deprived of justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth."
 34.  The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?"
 35.  Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

 

 

NIV Acts 17:2-4
2.  As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
 3.  explaining and proving that the Christ  had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ, " he said.
 4.  Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.

 

 

NIV Acts 17:11-12
11.  Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
 12.  Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

 

 

NIV Acts 18:24-28
24.  Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures.
 25.  He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor  and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John.
 26.  He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
 27.  When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.
 28.  For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

 

 

NIV Romans 1:1-4
 1.  Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God--
 2.  the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 
 3.  regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,
 4.  and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

NIV Romans 4:3-8
3.  What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
 4.  Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
 5.  However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
 6.  David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
 7.  "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
 8.  Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

 

 

NIV Romans 10:11-13
 11.  As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 12.  For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
 13.  for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

 

NIV Romans 15:3-4
 3.  For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
 4.  For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:3-5
 3.  For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
 4.  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures ,
 5.  and that he appeared to Peter,  and then to the Twelve.

 

 

NIV Galatians 3:8
  The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

 

 

NIV Galatians 3:16
 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"  meaning one person, who is Christ.

 

 

NIV Galatians 3:22
   But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

 

 

NIV 2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
 15.  and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

 

NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

 

 

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
  He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[safisoft]

That would be a different "queen of heaven".

Dream on. It is the same 'being'. The mother of Y'shua was named "Miriam" and I can assure you that she has nothing to do with the demigod that so many pray to today - and yet still oddly insist on calling her "queen of heaven" despite the clear warning.

[safisoft]

And the decision as to which books ended up in the Bible was made by the Catholic Church.

Believe that if you like. That does not make it so. The fact is that Judaism has recognized as received, 2/3rds of your Bible - and I can assure you, we have never had anything to do with your "canonical" councils except to be on the receiving end of vicious and hateful pronouncements from them. Your history is sadly perverted.

[libstripper]

Several years ago I received an invitation from some realtives who were on a sabbatical in Italy to join them for a couple of weeks. I stayed with them at their apartment in Rome for about half of that time and visited both St. Peter's and the Vatican Museum. I was treated with remarkable decency and courtesy wherever I went, even though I was not a Catholic. That insult to John Paul II was just beyond the pale.

[safisoft]

Good; then you probably know WHICH 'scriptures' are referred to here

Well done. I appreciate it. The fact is that the TaNaKh is a profoundly Messianic document. From the first letter (the beit in b'reishit [In the beginning] to the last letter it is all about Messiah. The Jewish Sages since ancient time have seen this, and for the most part Judaism and evangelical 'Christianity' have shared similar opinions regarding the Messianism within various passages.

I am a believer in Y'shua. He is Messiah, He is L-RD. You may be interested in a Bible study called "Messiah Unveiled". It is in PDF format. It is on our Bereans Online web site at www.bereansonline.org.

[safisoft]

Your posts on the "fake pope" thread have been very good. Thanks,

Rick (aka safisoft)

[conservonator]

If you believe me to be lying why not just come out and say it.

Because I don't know if you are. I was simply posting my experience, as you did yours.

[Elsie]

As Christians we try to follow God's law, but no human besides Jesus Christ has managed to be completely without sin, which is why he did pay that penalty.

 

Except Mary, you boob!

 

Haven't you GOTTEN this yet??

 

 

Oh. wait..........

 

Matthew 19:16-17

  And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

;^)



(I get it!)

[Thorin]

>>>>>It's sad to see that actually thinking honestly through a series of reasonable Biblical questions is disdainful for you.

>>>>>>>>But thanks for revealing your deepest spiritual need!

I don't have "deepest spiritual need," you do. What motivates someone to come on a thread to attack a revered figure after his death? That is what you've done, pure and simple. Frankly, I am disgusted by the posthumous Pope-bashers, whether they are fundamentalist whackos like you or atheists like Christopher Hitchens.

You attract no one to your beliefs by your antics, so spare me your false piety and concern. And perhaps think about the life of a man who helped bring freedom to millions and who effectively communicated to millions around the world the love that St. Paul upholds as the highest virtue.

[Elsie]

...you kept her sinless ...

Uh... see above....

[conservonator]

Oh my; not this brown stuff again.

Lol

[Thorin]

>>>>Believe that if you like. That does not make it so. The fact is that Judaism has recognized as received, 2/3rds of your Bible - and I can assure you, we have never had anything to do with your "canonical" councils except to be on the receiving end of vicious and hateful pronouncements from them. Your history is sadly perverted.

You still haven't explained how the books of the New Testament ended up in the Bible. And you apparently have no interest in figuring that one out.

[Elsie]

Why Mormonism? That has as many pagan influences/teachings as Catholicism!

Now now....

You are going to be taken to the woodshed by the Mormon protectors here in FRland...........

[MEGoody]

"The verse does not apply to Jesus because of some other piece of theology."

In the case of Jesus being God manifest in the flesh, that isn't just a tradition, it's in scripture. The sinlessness of Mary is a tradition not mentioned in scripture.

"That's why the verse does not prove that Mary sinned any more than it proves that Jesus sinned."

There's a bit of a difference between Mary and Jesus. I'm sure you wouldn't try to claim that Mary is God manifest in the flesh. . .would you?

[Elsie]

It's all Greek to me!