Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005
NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.
"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."
The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.
"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."
It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.
"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.
He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."
Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."
Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.
"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.
James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.
"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."
Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.
"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.
Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "
He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.
Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
Well that's because, as a "Bible" Christian, the Jewish revolt taking place around the birth of Christ (Maccabbees) is irrelevant to the history of the "King of the Jews".
What a fine showing of Christian goodwill towards one's fellowman. /sarcasm
I'm not Catholic or Baptist, but I get angry when I see stuff like this. "Judge not that ye be not judged" comes to mind.
Yep. I wonder what this maroon says when he intends to offend?
Catechism 490-493. Can be found here: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm#II
Oh - wait - I have not one, but TWO books describing the historical context surrounding the birth of Christ!
I'm by no means a religious expert, but I'm pretty sure that this is absolutely not true of all Catholics. I know some Catholics of the liberal persuasion, and I highly doubt that they would consider themselves to be "born again".
I suppose that you could then make the argument that these folks aren't in fact "real Catholics", but I'm not going to be the one to tell someone that she isn't a real Catholic. :)
As an infant I was christened a Baptist. At 12 I was baptised (sprinkled) into the Methodist Church. At 22 I was baptised again (Dunked this time) back into my original Baptist Church. At 42 I joined the Missouri syndicate of the Lutheran Church.
That's some interesting stuff.
I've come to learn, while watching the arguments, that the problem with Catholics is that they don't necessarily practive "Purely" from the bible. But rather from what some people say the bible says.
Still, like many have already posted, Catholics believe Jesus died for their sins. Seems like that is all that is really necessary...In the end.
??
For later reading
I know one big issue involved baptism. I have no idea what Catholics do or whether it’s just certain “flavors” (if there is such a thing) that do it, but baptizing infants/children (and by sprinkling rather than immersion) was considered one example of their “doing it wrong.”
That, because in the (typical?) Protestant view, it doesn’t count unless you’re of age/maturity to understand what you’re doing and old John showed by example how it should be done.
That’s one thing that popped into my mind… might not apply today, I don’t know.
Interestingly enough, the Bible never tells us that we must "accept" Christ as our "personal savior". That is Evangelical mumbo-jumbo that arises out of American revivalism. But, don't bother me with the facts.
-A8
Ha! I knew you were a freeper Reverend!
Irrelevant. If people believe in Michael Moore's tripe 2000 years from now, we can talk.
Thanks for the kind response, I am not a troll, just a God fearing man that wants to see others saved. I have been a freeper for years. Just recently been active again, and it feels good to be a part of the action again. This country needs the truth.
excerpted (see end)....
Roman Catholicism recognizes Allah as the God of the Bible. In 1985, Pope John Paul II declared to an enraptured audience of thousands of Muslim youths, "Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common as believers and as human beings....We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God...."
But how is that possible?
Historically, Allah was a pagan idol, supreme among many idols worshiped by Muhammad's Quraish tribe long before he was born. Will Durant in his classic, The Story of Civilization, writes,
Within the Ka'aba, in pre-Moslem days, were several idols representing gods. One was called Allah; three others were Allah's daughters, al-Uzza, al-Lat, and al-Manat. We may judge the antiquity of this Arab pantheon from the mention of Al-il-Lat (Al-Lat) by Herodotus [fifth century b.c. Greek historian] as a major Arabian deity. The Quraish paved the way for monotheism by worshiping Allah as chief god....
.... comparisons between Jehovah and Allah demonstrate clearly that they cannot be one and the same. Jehovah has a Son: "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" (1 Jn 4:14). Allah has no son: "And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty..." (Sura 17:111); "Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any God along with him" (Sura 23:91). Whereas God the Father declared from heaven concerning Jesus, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mt 3:17), Allah of the Qur'an condemns such a belief: "...the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!" (Sura 9:30 - The Holy Qur'an www.orst.edu/groups/msa/index.html).
Consider carefully the above quote (taken from what the Roman Catholic Church claims is an infallible council) and you will realize what truly binds Catholicism and Islam together: They both have a Jesus who cannot save their souls. The Qur'an teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross: "And because of [the Jews] saying, We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messengerThey slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain" (Sura 4:157). Vatican II may give Muslims credit for "venerating" Jesus, but in fact, it's a bogus Jesus. Sadly, Catholicism also has a false Christ. It teaches that His death on the cross was not sufficient for our salvation. Not only must His sacrifice (which, according to the Scriptures, was offered only once to take away our sins completely [Heb 9:28]) be "re-presented" as a daily sacrifice for sins on altars around the world, but Catholics must expiate their own sins through sufferings here on earth and in purgatory.
Pope John Paul II addressed a Catholic community in Turkey with these words: "I wonder if it is now urgent, precisely today when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite us." No! What is "urgent" is that Catholics and Muslims be set free from the spiritual bondage of attempting to qualify for heaven by their good deeds. Pray that their hearts would be open to receive the gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23). TBC
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world today; Catholicism is the largest religious body among those professing to be Christian. If the number of followers was a good measure for selecting a religion, then Islam and Catholicism would definitely be the way to go. However, the Bible has no such yardstick. Rather, Jesus said, "[W]ide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Mt 7:13,14).
http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletters/2002+Newsletters/4463.aspx
True. I didn't know, until informed by a good Catholic on FR, that there is no salvation apart from the Roman church. They were able to cite official church doctrine to establish that point.
Yes. Interesting that the Reverand forgot about this scripture while judging people for calling someone other than God father.
It's an easy trap to fall into, quoting scripture AT people, because as sure as anything, while accusing someone else of not following Biblical teachings, there's a whole lot of Biblical teachings that the accuser can be found to have broken.
Yep, it's even against Taoism.
Not that I agree with the argument that infant baptisms aren't efficasious (sp?), but we renew our baptismal vows at every Catholic Baptism, and every Easter.
If you attended Mass, you studied the Bible...
For the sake of the previous discussion, here's a different take from the main story...
"During WWII, four Chaplains went down on the U.S.Troop Ship DORCHESTER when she was torpedoed that bitterly frigid pre-dawn morning of February 3rd, 1943.
"Although the DORCHESTER was part of a six ship convoy consisting of the U.S. Coast Guard Cutters TAMPA, COMANCHE and ESCANABA plus two freighters, the water was so cold and the night so dark that only about one third of the ship's compliment could be saved...
The Four Chaplains, Rev. Clark V. Poling (Dutch Reformed), Rabbi Alexander D. Goode (Jewish), Rev. Fr. John P. Washington (Roman Catholic) and Rev. George L. Fox (Methodist), gathered on the deck to rally the men.
Three of the Chaplains were young men but Rev. Fox had been under fire in World War One, before he became a minister. All four remained calm, assisted the troops, gave away their own life jackets to soldiers who had none and then linked arm in arm on the deck of the sinking ship as they prayed for the safety of the others.
When last seen they still stood together as the sea closed over their heads..."
Maybe we all could learn from the example of these good men long ago...I believe they all continue to see the face of God in his glory. God bless.
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