Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005
NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.
"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."
The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.
"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."
It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.
"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.
He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."
Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."
Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.
"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.
James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.
"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."
Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.
"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.
Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "
He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.
Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
"What gives the creeds their authority? The Church! Who determines what books belong to the Bible? The Church."
But don't you see we are operating from 2 different models. Your model has the Roman Church beginning with Peter and continuing without interruption to the present day. Our model has a non-Roman Church for the first few centuries AD which gradually evolved into the Roman
Church.
You have also said: "You make the issue into what you can or cannot accept. It does not matter what you can or cannot accept; what matters is what is true".
I'm sure that the poster does not simply mean that he can't accept something, but rather he believes it to not be true. Now lest you say where is the proof, if there was proof as sure as 2+2=4, then we would all be Catholics or all be Protestants. A number of years ago I ran into a Bible study on eschatology. If you could accept the first premise then there was proof that Pre-Millenial, Post-Millenial and A-Millenial were all true.
No you are not. You are saying that we should ignore (and not submit to) the bishops that they themselves appointed for us.
-A8
So, in your view, one Church became a different Church??? As Paul says in Eph 4:5, there is "one Lord, one faith, one baptism". And there has always been only one Church: Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam (one, holy, catholic and apostolic church). It does not make any sense to say that one Church became another Church. Did Christ have one body, and then get another body?
That is absurd. There has only been one Church, and it has extended throughout time since the day of Pentecost. The gates of hell have not prevailed against it, ever. Nor shall they. The Church never ceased to exist, and then re-appeared later. It has existed in unbroken, organic unity from the beginning.
-A8
Do you in fact deny that Jesus is God?
-A8
Can a believer go to our Heavenly Father without belonging to the Roman Catholic church? Is there salvation outside the RCC?
Can a believer go to our Heavenly Father without belonging to the Roman Catholic church? Is there salvation outside the RCC?
That logic is yours - no mine. I am speaking of the concepts - it you that is trying to play word games.
The CONECPT of sacraments as practiced in the Catholic church does not exist in the bible.
The CONCEPT of the Eucharist as practiced in the Catholic church does not exist in the bible
The Eucharist is not described in the Gospels?
No. The Catholic concept of Eucharist has no basis in the bible. The concept of transubstantiation does not exist in the bible and did not exist in the Catholic church for nearly 1,000 years. The Catholics invented this concept and formally made it "doctrine" at the Council of Trent (1545).
Baptism is not described in the Gospels?
No. The way in which Catholics perform baptism is not in the Gospels. Was Jesus baptized with "Holy water" sprinkled on his head when he was an infant? No.
Confession?
No. The Catholic concept of confession to a priest is not in the Bible. In the Bible we are told to confess to God. In the Catholic church, the followers are taught to confess to men. In the Bible we are told only God can forgive sins, in the Catholic church the followers believe the tasks (penance) issued by men (priests) can help forgive your sins
Christ not only talked about these things but commanded his Apostles and followers to carry them out in His name and memory.
Not true. If you wish to try to prove me wrong, just show me the scripture that supports Catholic Eucharist, Catholic Baptism, and Catholic Confession. That was the reason for the reformation - people realized that many - if not most - Catholic rituals and rules did not come from the Bible.
I don't know what is the "correct" religion but I do know most of the rituals, rights, and icons of the Catholic church do not come from the Bible.
You know what we believe. That the Church through all time has consisted of all Christian believers (the Bride of Christ as described in the Bible). The institutional church is another matter. You believe that it has always been the Roman Catholic Church. We don't believe that. Further, I don't believe that this proposition can be proved to the satisfaction of either side, just as no one proves the existence of God. So, no I don't believe that the Church (the Bride of Christ) has changed nor will it change. The institutional church...yes that has changed and it continues to change.
They cannot be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (Catechism, 846)
The Church has always taught that "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" (outside of the Church there is no salvation). God, of course, being omnipotent, is free to work as He wishes. But the Church has always taught that the necessary means by which God has willed to bring salvation to men is through His Son and His Church.
-A8
They cannot be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
I don't know who you are and what you believe. I don't know who the "we" is.
What is the difference between "the Church" and the "institutional church"?
-A8
But, like I pointed out earlier, when you are your own Apostle, you get to make Scripture mean whatever you want it to mean.
-A8
You keep mistaking Babylon in Revelation 18 for the Catholic Church. That is "Scripture twisting".
*****
I guess we will see won't we?
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.
Amen...Come, Lord Jesus
Why do you call Him "Lord" and "Lord God" if you do not believe that He is God?
-A8
Greek..Kuros (supremacy) as a noun. by impl. Mr. (as a respectful title)
King David was called Lord also but that did not make him God.
So I guess since you haven't poisoned me with your catholic doctrine that Jesus is God as you have poisoned so many protestant churches, than I guess its futile for you to think I will call your Queen (Semaramis whom you refer to as Mary) the mother of God.
You have down thru the ages indoctrinated the daughters with huge amounts of your pagan doctrine intertwined with scripture to bring them home to Rome....but I am not one of them. Nor will I bow my knee to a Sun God, His queen or their offspring. I will not buy your pagan holy trinkets nor will I celebrate your pagan holy high days.
WE have no common ground on which we will meet. I KNOW my Heavenly Father and He abhors your system, He will destroy Her, and ALL who cling to her.
Just find you a good place to hide because you will be chewing your tongues and crying for the rocks to fall on you. The birds will feast on your flesh at the great Supper of God. Gather souls while you can, Satan knows his time is short, but this will not be one soul you will get.
I am an evangelical Christian. I am a member of an Evangelical Free Church. As I tried to explain in my previous post, the Church consists of all the believers throughout the 2 millenia since the time of Christ. The institutional Church is the physical manifestation of buildings, properties, organizations, denominations, etc. It is possible to have members of the institutional church that are not yet members of the Church as they have not yet placed their trust in the person of Christ and His finished work for their sin accomplished on the cross.
The JW's say this...
The Moonies say this...
The Mormons say this...
Even Scripture says this -
Acts Chapter 8
26. Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road--the desert road--that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza."
27. So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship,
28. and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet.
29. The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."
30. Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31. "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32. The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture: "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
33. In his humiliation he was deprived of justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth."
34. The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?"
The DIFFERENCE is that SCRIPTURE was looked into; NOT 'words of the Fathers'
35. Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
(BEGAN - I'll bet he used others as well!)
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