Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005
NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.
"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."
The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.
"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."
It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.
"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.
He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."
Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."
Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.
"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.
James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.
"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."
Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.
"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.
Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "
He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.
Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
The Anti-Christ......"once was...is not...and is again."
"In the last days, they will call bad, good and good, bad."
"There is nothing NEW under the sun."
"If it were possible even the very ELECT of God will be deceived."
RELIGION and POLITICS crucified Christ....2 of the most corrupt and dangerous forms of power known to mankind.
"God's people are a remnant..."called OUT ones".
"God is the SAME, yesterday , today and tomorrow."
Man kind is building his "Tower of Babel" once again, thinking he can make God in his image.
*****
Idolatory and paganism are not part of Catholic doctrine.
*****
Is this kind of like..... annulment is not divorce, it just LOOKS that way?
And Christ paid for our sins in full.......BUT..He just didn't get all of them cause you might have to go visit purgatory. Buying a candle and lighting it will get your loved ones out of there, but who knows how many candles you have to buy or who is there to tell you if you have bought to many candles or not enough candles.
So quick....grab out your little string of beads and chant awhile....God is definately impressed with that.
(I think I read somewhere in scripture where the 12 disciples, were sitting around stringing beads, and Judas said..hey guys, lets forget where Jesus instructed us in praying by saying "Our FATHER who aren't in heaven...and put Jesus's mother in there instead....because after ALL..God who created Adam out of dust and Eve from one rib could not run this show without inventing a sinless woman who can be Mrs. Goddess, who in turn gave birth to God, then we can SELL the beads and people will think they are holy by doing this. And then....we can betray God...hang him on a tree where he can then deny and forsake himself and be put in hell for 3 days for Satan to mess with.
Boy...I tell you, when God said he would send a STRONG delusion on the earth...a person would have to be pretty deluded to believe the way organized religion has taught it.
I read my bible and I can barely match any of these corrupt worldly organizations practices up with any of it. Its so twisted its UNREAL....and people believe it!!!!!!! MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of people.
BTW, your prophecy about Cardinal Arinze being the next Pope and being a -- quoting now -- "man-eater" didn't exactly come true, did it?
...and while it is beyond man's ability to REALLY understand God....you will find all sorts of people who claim that they (and only they) can.
People are constantly attempting to make God...in their own image.
redrock
BTW, your prophecy about Cardinal Arinze being the next Pope and being a -- quoting now -- "man-eater" didn't exactly come true, did it?
******
I believe my words were the next pope is A Black Pope and he would consume the minds of men.
I doubt if less than a week into it you will determine what is true or not.
Ahh, I can't get away from this thread! Do you congregate with people who think the same way as you or do you just do your own thing? And if you do meet up with others - is there a name you go by?
14. "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD--a lasting ordinance.
...a YEARLY celebration; to being something that is a mere shadow, being done every time you attend Mass?
The guys with the sign are militant Arminians, and the Pope is, at best, a semi-Pelagian. There-----now their all even!
I'm alot more concerned about those who would behead all of them and us. Kinda makes an idiotic statement on a so-called "Baptist" church sign irrelevant.
You are assuming that the Bible is an exhaustive source of theological truth. That's not a safe assumption. In fact, it is a false assumption. See the Sungenis book I mentioned above.
-A8
"man-eater"
****
p.s. I think gathering the souls of men (consuming their minds) for Satan is about as big a man-eater as you can get. If you want me to use EXACT words.
Altho I will express my definate mistake in understanding exactly what was meant by A Black Pope....I really did think skin color, that's not how I was meant to interpret it. I'll leave it at that. The facts still do not change.
-A8
-A8
Why?
and were considered heresy even by RCC for the first 1000 years or so
What is your evidence for this claim?
And by the way, Catholics can not know that they are saved. For a Catholic to acknowledge that they are born again or saved is worse than a mortal sin - an anathema. Council of Trent - still in effect.
And what's your point? We don't get to make doctrine to suit our fancy. If it is true that we can't know whether we are saved, then we have to accept it. We can't rationally reject a doctrine simply because we don't like it.
-A8
NIV 2 Kings 22:8-20
8. Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the secretary, "I have found the Book of the Law in the temple of the LORD." He gave it to Shaphan, who read it.
9. Then Shaphan the secretary went to the king and reported to him: "Your officials have paid out the money that was in the temple of the LORD and have entrusted it to the workers and supervisors at the temple."
10. Then Shaphan the secretary informed the king, "Hilkiah the priest has given me a book." And Shaphan read from it in the presence of the king.
11. When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law, he tore his robes.
12. He gave these orders to Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam son of Shaphan, Acbor son of Micaiah, Shaphan the secretary and Asaiah the king's attendant:
13. "Go and inquire of the LORD for me and for the people and for all Judah about what is written in this book that has been found. Great is the LORD's anger that burns against us because our fathers have not obeyed the words of this book; they have not acted in accordance with all that is written there concerning us."
14. Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Acbor, Shaphan and Asaiah went to speak to the prophetess Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the Second District.
15. She said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me,
16. `This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book the king of Judah has read.
17. Because they have forsaken me and burned incense to other gods and provoked me to anger by all the idols their hands have made, my anger will burn against this place and will not be quenched.'
18. Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the LORD, `This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says concerning the words you heard:
19. Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I have spoken against this place and its people, that they would become accursed and laid waste, and because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I have heard you, declares the LORD.
20. Therefore I will gather you to your fathers, and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place.'" So they took her answer back to the king.
NIV 2 Chronicles 34:14-33
14. While they were bringing out the money that had been taken into the temple of the LORD, Hilkiah the priest found the Book of the Law of the LORD that had been given through Moses.
15. Hilkiah said to Shaphan the secretary, "I have found the Book of the Law in the temple of the LORD." He gave it to Shaphan.
16. Then Shaphan took the book to the king and reported to him: "Your officials are doing everything that has been committed to them.
17. They have paid out the money that was in the temple of the LORD and have entrusted it to the supervisors and workers."
18. Then Shaphan the secretary informed the king, "Hilkiah the priest has given me a book." And Shaphan read from it in the presence of the king.
19. When the king heard the words of the Law, he tore his robes.
20. He gave these orders to Hilkiah, Ahikam son of Shaphan, Abdon son of Micah, Shaphan the secretary and Asaiah the king's attendant:
21. "Go and inquire of the LORD for me and for the remnant in Israel and Judah about what is written in this book that has been found. Great is the LORD's anger that is poured out on us because our fathers have not kept the word of the LORD; they have not acted in accordance with all that is written in this book."
22. Hilkiah and those the king had sent with him went to speak to the prophetess Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tokhath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the Second District.
23. She said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me,
24. `This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people--all the curses written in the book that has been read in the presence of the king of Judah.
25. Because they have forsaken me and burned incense to other gods and provoked me to anger by all that their hands have made, my anger will be poured out on this place and will not be quenched.'
26. Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the LORD, `This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says concerning the words you heard:
27. Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before God when you heard what he spoke against this place and its people, and because you humbled yourself before me and tore your robes and wept in my presence, I have heard you, declares the LORD.
28. Now I will gather you to your fathers, and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place and on those who live here.'" So they took her answer back to the king.
29. Then the king called together all the elders of Judah and Jerusalem.
30. He went up to the temple of the LORD with the men of Judah, the people of Jerusalem, the priests and the Levites--all the people from the least to the greatest. He read in their hearing all the words of the Book of the Covenant, which had been found in the temple of the LORD.
31. The king stood by his pillar and renewed the covenant in the presence of the LORD--to follow the LORD and keep his commands, regulations and decrees with all his heart and all his soul, and to obey the words of the covenant written in this book.
32. Then he had everyone in Jerusalem and Benjamin pledge themselves to it; the people of Jerusalem did this in accordance with the covenant of God, the God of their fathers.
33. Josiah removed all the detestable idols from all the territory belonging to the Israelites, and he had all who were present in Israel serve the LORD their God. As long as he lived, they did not fail to follow the LORD, the God of their fathers.
NIV Acts 28:23-28
23. They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.
24. Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.
25. They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: "The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26. "`Go to this people and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."
27. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
28. "Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"
NIV 2 Corinthians 1:12-15
12. Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, in the holiness and sincerity that are from God. We have done so not according to worldly wisdom but according to God's grace.
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, (Sola Scriptura????)
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.NIV Ephesians 3:1-6
1. For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles--
2. Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,
3. that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.
4. In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5. which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.
NIV 2 Peter 1:20
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.NIV 2 Peter 3:15-18
15. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
18. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
(This thread would stop REALLY quick if we did!)
I never said NOT to listen to them, but to use your own brain in CHOOSING which to believe.
Ahh, I can't get away from this thread! Do you congregate with people who think the same way as you or do you just do your own thing?
*****
LOL....I talk and congregate all the time, some think the same as I do..some are close to my thinking...others are way off, but we like each other. If someone wants to know truth, I mean TRUTH, and they dig and hunt and pray and read their BIBLES.
We will all come to the same point eventually. At least I always hope so. There are only TWO paths....just TWO.
I'm still learning......but I have to tell you, my closeness with The Father has grown in leaps and bounds and understanding since I QUIT trying to bend God's word to line up with man taught doctrines.
It's no wonder there is great confusion.....I've been there, I understand it. I'm just not confused anymore, very grounded, unmoveable in what I believe. Protestants can't shake me, Jehovah's witnesses can't shake me, Catholics can't shake me, Mormons, Hindu's. I am really very very basic.....I see the doctrines of devils and at one time I was steeped in them.......I know what you're thinking. (I understand) I just am not good at minceing words or beating around the bush.
******
And if you do meet up with others - is there a name you go by?
You mean my real name? or a title of some sort?
Well yes....believe it or not my parents named me...roflol. (After they found me under that rock down by the creek.)
Title....no, see no use for one other than a believer. There is alittle bit in all the religions that I do believe, but not enough in any of them to be wanting to tag myself by its distinctions, if you understand what I'm saying. I believe there are God's people sitting in all of them.........for now.
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