Republican to Lead Immigration Revolt Against Bush

Reuters ^ | Jan 12, 2005 | Alan Elsner

[GOPXtreme20]

Republican to Lead Immigration Revolt Against Bush

By Alan Elsner

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Republican member of the House of Representatives vowed on Wednesday to lead a revolt against President Bush (news - web sites)'s immigration reform proposals and predicted that up to 180 party members would support him.

Bush in an interview with the Washington Times published on Wednesday said he plans to force a debate in Congress this year on his proposal that would allow some illegal immigrants to obtain legal work permits in the United States.

Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo, who heads the House Immigration Reform Caucus, said he was determined to block the legislation. The caucus, which had 71 members in the last Congress, argues for stronger action to stop illegal immigration and a reduction of legal migration.

"Why is this so important to the president?" Tancredo said. "Is it just the corporate interests who benefit from cheap labor? Do they have such a strong grip on our president so that he is actually willing to put our nation at risk, because open borders do put our nation at risk?

"Is it petulance, because we were able to stop it in the last Congress? Why is it so important to give amnesty to people who have broken the law?" Tancredo said.

"I'm willing to lead a fight against this and I would say there are at least 180 members of our Republican caucus who are willing at least to stop amnesty for illegal immigrants," he told Reuters in a telephone interview.

Bush has repeatedly said he views immigration reform as an important issue for his second term. In the Washington Times interview, he said it was near the top of his agenda.

"Look, whether or not you agree with the solution or not, we have a problem in America when you've got 8 million undocumented workers here," he said.

BUSH CONFIDENCE

Bush expressed confidence he could win over opponents, as he did in passing tax reform during his first term. "Initially out of the box, some people said, over my dead body would they pass tax relief ... If I listened to all that, I'd just quit, you know. But that's not the way I think."

But analysts agree that immigration reform could be much more divisive for Republicans since growing numbers of rank-and-file voters are becoming concerned at the continued influx of illegal immigrants across the Mexican border.

"No issue, not one, threatens to do more damage to the Republican coalition than immigration," said David Frum, a former White House speech writer in Bush's first term.

"There's no issue where the beliefs and interests of the party rank-and-file diverge more radically from the beliefs and interests of the party's leaders," he wrote in the National Review last month.

Bush insists he is not offering amnesty to illegal immigrants but Tancredo said that was a "manipulation of language, the kind of thing (former President) Bill Clinton would have done. There is an issue of integrity here and an issue of honesty," he said.

[Southack]

"After 7 years of being on the front line against this illegal alien invasion, I'm of the opinion that this won't work as are about 20,000 of my co-workers. Of course, we could all be wrong."

It's safe to say that your desire to keep illegal aliens and their employers anonymous will not work.

On the other hand, offering rewards for crooks to rat out other crooks is a time-tested method of catching lots and lots of crooks.

In short, my way works. What Tancredo has proposed will work. What Bush has proposed will work.

In contrast, letting employers and their illegal employees remain unregistered and anonymous will not work.

In this manner, if you are telling the truth, then Bush and Tancredo have individually out-thought 20,000 of your fellow co-workers by simply looking at what has worked in other areas and suggesting that such successful processes be used to solve our immigration issues.

[rolling_stone]

Once one illegal registers, then you've got the IRS, INS, union reps, ACLU, and various do-gooders who are suddenly paying that guy's illegal employer regular visits. His entire sweatshop just got busted, all because just 1 guy took the reward for registering himself and his employer

A Pipe dream with whacky tobacco

Someone gets caught with the felony crime of welfare fraud and they send him a letter that they are no longer going to send them money-won't share info with INS..IRS sends a letter to 1/100 saying the person you hired doesn't have a valid social security card so you need to withhold more money..won't share info with INS. ACLU sues on behalf of illegal against the government not the employer...local police won't assist INS...Public Schools won't assist INS....WHO and HOW many people are going to enforce it at what cost and where does the government guarantee enforcement funding?

[Southack]

"WHO and HOW many people are going to enforce it at what cost and where does the government guarantee enforcement funding?"

Once registered, there is no doubt that the IRS will enforce tax withholding payments by employers of illegals. Once they are no longer anonymous, there is no doubt that union reps will insist that union scale be paid where required. Once registered, the INS knows which employers need to be audited for compliance.

These are things that aren't happening to currently anonymous employers of illegals.

How to end that anonymity? Tancredo and Bush both suggest plans that give *rewards* to illegal aliens to identify those employers.

Do rewards entice people to identify others? Yes. Is it time-tested (e.g. wanted dead or alive bounty reward posters)? Yes. Is this approach *different* than our current approach? Yes.

Too bad that you oppose such registration. Too bad that you want us to continue letting illegals and their employers remain anonymous... Too bad.

[Barlowmaker]

ACLU sues on behalf of illegal against the government not the employer...local police won't assist INS...Public Schools won't assist INS....WHO and HOW many people are going to enforce it at what cost and where does the government guarantee enforcement funding?

I followed the dramatic chain of evidence from the INS to the IRS to the ACLU to the local cops back to the INS to ... the World Health Organization? Kerplunk.

[Barlowmaker]

After 7 years of being on the front line against this illegal alien invasion, I'm of the opinion that this won't work as are about 20,000 of my co-workers.

Maybe we should find 20,000 Guatamalan, Honduran and Salvadoran immigrant military and police professionals who want to work the border enthusiastically for lower pay and higher performance to guarantee economic benefit to their families in America.

[samtheman]

are you now going to mandate that someone has to be a janitor or housekeeper.

I think this has been explained to you about 100 times but you still don't get it. Here goes attempt #101:

1. It's not just janitor jobs. Many construction jobs are involved.
2. The illegals are hired not just because they work hard (many do), but precisely because they are illegal, which means they can't complain about mistreatment and underpayment.
3. If the current crop of illegals were "given papers", it wouldn't be long before they were given their walking papers, because their employers want illegals, not legals, doing many of the construction jobs.
4. If there aren't enough people willing to be janitors or dishwashers or whatever, increase the legal immigration quotas. That's not hard to do.
5. The availability of entry-level jobs for citizen teens and young adults is an important part of a functioning healthy national economy.
6. The availability of entry-level jobs for citizen teens and young adults is an important part of many people's career formation.
7. The current system of encouraging "breaking the law" (which is what "illegal" means) is also encouraging a huge increase in crime. Illegal immigrants commit a far higher proportion of crimes than citizens do.
8. It's just plain stupid to have an open border in a time of war.
9. It's just simple common sense for a sovereign nation to have control over who and what crosses its borders.

[dirtboy]

Nope. We already use state id's (e.g. birth certificate, driver's license) for that. Employers *already* check your eligibility status with such documents when they hire you. That's not new and it doesn't require a change.

And that works so well to prevent the hiring of illegals /sarcasm.

[raybbr]

It's not silly, and both Tancredo and President Bush are offering roughly the same incentive: in exchange for registering themselves and their illegal employers, illegal aliens get a legal work permit (the so-called "blue card") for 1 to 3 years, the right to travel across our borders legally and frequently to see their families, full banking and wire transfer rights, and immunity from future raids during their legal tenure...the latter being important because...

They can do all this now. There is no enforcement of our existing laws.

...both Tancredo's and Bush's immigration plans register *employers* of illegals. This means that if a single illegal worker applies for her blue card, that our government suddenly knows to go audit that entire sweatshop (e.g. for immigration violations, minimum wage violations, workman's comp violations, etc.). So anyone left at taht sweathsop who *hasn't* applied for this blue card is about to get arrested and deported because of that one illegal applying for this blue card.

They are not investigating companies now. Why would I, or anyone, think they will after the plan is in place?

To avoid that, all of them will go register rather than risk deportation...moreover, the *employers* of these illegals get ratted out under both Bush's and Tancredo's immigration plans...so unless each employer gets *all* of their illegal workers to go register, said employer will get BUSTED in the forthcoming audit.

They don't check now. What has been said to make you believe it will be any different after the plan is in place?

So both new plans from President Bush and Congressman Tancredo offer a carrot and a stick to both the illegals and their employers. So there is no question that they will register in very, very large numbers.

I don't buy it. There is no enforcement now. Why would I think that Bush would all of a sudden decide to enforce the law?

Bush's plan is a slap in the face to all immigrants that came here leagally. It is a spit in the eye to all who are waiting to come here legally.

Sorry, I don't like his plan. Illegals are not U.S. citizens and should be treated as invaders.

Once registered, this problem becomes manageable. The anonymity that protected millions suddenly disappears.

There's a lot pre-supposition in that. I don't buy it.

[raybbr]

That's a moot point; both Tancredo's and Bush's immigration plans put no limits on how many illegals can apply to work here.

Once Bush's plan is in place every new job created will be at a wage level that "an American refuses to do" and there will be willing border jumpers ready to work at that wage. All of your arguments conveniently leave out the economic impact of the influx millions of "legal" cheap laborers, skilled laborers and educated immigrants.

Tell me where this ends.

[raybbr]

Nope. We already use state id's (e.g. birth certificate, driver's license) for that. Employers *already* check your eligibility status with such documents when they hire you. That's not new and it doesn't require a change.

That's the problem. I spoke with our HR guy. He says that the only check that they can do is to verify the name matches the SS#. They cannot check/ask about citizenship. Even the IRS doesn't care that incomes from the same SS# are coming in from different parts of the country.

[raybbr]

What's sad is many of the immigrants are better Americans than people who are born here.

They can't be - they are not Americans.

[EagleMamaMT]

"They have greater pride than that. They take their obligations to themselves, their families, and to their American blessing more seriously than that"

So, if Americans start out as blue-collar workers and are still blue-collar workers they're just losers, is that your assessment of the situation?

So my crane operator husband (who incidentally makes more money per year than a lot college professors) doesn't take his obligations to his family or his American blessings as seriously as a white-collar professional does? Let's see: He feeds our family, clothes us, pays his taxes every year, pays our bills and gives to our church. That makes him pretty responsible in my opinion.

What about our friend (a carpenter) who is also in the Army Reserves and just got back from spending a year in Iraq with his engineering battalion? Is he a "loser", too, because he's an excellent carpenter and loves what he does?

Or my nephew (a sheet metal fabricator) who's in the Army Reserves and is serving in Afghanistan right now? I guess he's a "loser", too, because he works with his hands for a living to support his family (when he's not getting his ass shot at in Afghanistan).

You might be in your 40s, but you have about as much insight as a lot of 20 year olds I've met. You actually judge the worth of people by whether or not they wear a suit and tie or workboots and a hardhat.

[Sam the Sham]

From England to Holland to France to Spain to Australia, all over the developed world, anti-immigration populism is a political tsunami.

You truly are a sham if you think this country should emulate anything french. Just ask Moshe Journo what it's like for a Jew in France getting caught up in this political tsunami you seem so proud of.

How typical of the general corruption of the pro cheap labor caucus is that while they whine "racism, racism" they are never above a little ethnic bashing themselves.

[A. Pole]

Just ask Moshe Journo what it's like for a Jew in France getting caught up in this political tsunami you seem so proud of.

I am confused which side of this tsunami you have in mind? Do you mean tsunami of mass Muslim immgration which leads to the attacks on French Jews? Or do you mean failed "tsunami" of Le Pen who tried to limit this Muslim invasion? Which of the two is bad for the French Jews?

I think that French Jews who are for the open borders and diversity should move to the Lebanon (French language is still being used there).

[taxed2death]

It's about GD time someone stood up for the American taxpayer. This puts TT head and shoulders above GWB as a "LEADER"...and not someone who just wants to whitewash the whole thing.

Thanks TT.

[taxed2death]

"I surmise you will be the first in line tomorrow morning to take a janitorial or housekeeping position."

No, but the kids graduating from my states technical / trade high school will get a FAIR shake at a job in the trades.


Nice try.

Illegal apologist.

[taxed2death]

" but face it these people are doing jobs most Americans snub their nose at"

Hoss, you are so out of the freaking loop, you can't be taken seriously.

Right now, 50 feet from me are a half dozen illegals working in a TRADE.
These jobe SHOULD go to American citizens. These jobs WOULD have gone to kids entering this particular trade once they graduate from tech high school.

Two buildings down from me....30+ more illegals.....taking jobs in another TRADE.

Across the street...
in a sheetmetal shop....more illegals...taking TRADE jobs that SHOULD go to Bullard Havens tech school grads who have TRAINED for 4 years in this particular trade.

Get a freaking clue, amigo.