Are you being deliberately obtuse? Why would you spout nonsense about SS cards and "national id cards" to explain your opposition to rewarding illegals to turn in their employers?
Posted on 01/12/2005 12:50:36 PM PST by GOPXtreme20
Republican to Lead Immigration Revolt Against Bush
By Alan Elsner
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Republican member of the House of Representatives vowed on Wednesday to lead a revolt against President Bush (news - web sites)'s immigration reform proposals and predicted that up to 180 party members would support him.
Bush in an interview with the Washington Times published on Wednesday said he plans to force a debate in Congress this year on his proposal that would allow some illegal immigrants to obtain legal work permits in the United States.
Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo, who heads the House Immigration Reform Caucus, said he was determined to block the legislation. The caucus, which had 71 members in the last Congress, argues for stronger action to stop illegal immigration and a reduction of legal migration.
"Why is this so important to the president?" Tancredo said. "Is it just the corporate interests who benefit from cheap labor? Do they have such a strong grip on our president so that he is actually willing to put our nation at risk, because open borders do put our nation at risk?
"Is it petulance, because we were able to stop it in the last Congress? Why is it so important to give amnesty to people who have broken the law?" Tancredo said.
"I'm willing to lead a fight against this and I would say there are at least 180 members of our Republican caucus who are willing at least to stop amnesty for illegal immigrants," he told Reuters in a telephone interview.
Bush has repeatedly said he views immigration reform as an important issue for his second term. In the Washington Times interview, he said it was near the top of his agenda.
"Look, whether or not you agree with the solution or not, we have a problem in America when you've got 8 million undocumented workers here," he said.
BUSH CONFIDENCE
Bush expressed confidence he could win over opponents, as he did in passing tax reform during his first term. "Initially out of the box, some people said, over my dead body would they pass tax relief ... If I listened to all that, I'd just quit, you know. But that's not the way I think."
But analysts agree that immigration reform could be much more divisive for Republicans since growing numbers of rank-and-file voters are becoming concerned at the continued influx of illegal immigrants across the Mexican border.
"No issue, not one, threatens to do more damage to the Republican coalition than immigration," said David Frum, a former White House speech writer in Bush's first term.
"There's no issue where the beliefs and interests of the party rank-and-file diverge more radically from the beliefs and interests of the party's leaders," he wrote in the National Review last month.
Bush insists he is not offering amnesty to illegal immigrants but Tancredo said that was a "manipulation of language, the kind of thing (former President) Bill Clinton would have done. There is an issue of integrity here and an issue of honesty," he said.
The welfare needs to go. That's the corrupting force. That poisons the productive good of the new arrivals. Let's work on that.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Why would you spout nonsense about SS cards and "national id cards" to explain your opposition to rewarding illegals to turn in their employers?
The current trend on the border indicates other wise. More and more illegals are bringing their families here and staying forever. There have been less and less recidivist apprehensions over the years. There is not long a "must" return attitude with illegals. It's been gone for years.
because employers will be faced with audits for wage, tax, worker's comp, and immigration compliance.
Audits by whom? Not ICE, not CBP, and certainly not BCIS. Who?
It will only take one illegal registering a sweatshop to ruin the whole game for all those who tried to get away without registering themselves...ditto for the employer who had tried to avoid convincing his illegal employees to register proactively.
See post #779.
At least 100,000 new Federal Agents.
But, Congress will never hire them, so the program will go un-enforced.
You are really dreaming now. None of this is happening now & it will never happen under a guest worker program. There are immigration laws on the books now, and other than Wal-Mart janitors, they aren't being enforced. That is is real hoot.
By rewarding illegal aliens to register themselves and their employers, you suddenly give law enforcement personnel some amazing tools with which to pressure the businesses that hire illegals.
Is the Easter Bunny going to deliver these amazing tools? What more amazing tool do you need than pulling over an illegal with a matricular consular card? The LE officer knows they are illegal - but Special Order 40 prevents him from even asking about nationality, not alone illegal status. Guest owrker programs aren't going to change that. Can we say ACLU?
Why you would oppose such registration in favor that such businesses and illegal workers remain anonymous instead boggles my mind, however.
I'm done going in circles with you, I have stated several times I support legal immigration & enforcement of the immigratin laws, not support anonymity.
On this we can agree, but Congress, republicans and democrats alike will never do away with welfare.
Of course it will happen. See post #779. By rewarding illegal aliens to rat out their employers, a whole host of law enforcement tools (e.g. IRS, unions, ACLU) can be brought to bear against the *employers* of those illegals.
What boggles my mind is why there is so much thoughtless opposition to getting those illegal employers registered per Tancredo's and Bush's competing immigration plans.
What, you people want the employers to remain anonymous like they are today?! Oh yeah, *THAT* will solve your problem... NOT!
LOL,the IRS.
They know who the illegals are now and will not tell the immigration authorities who they are. Sorry, you’re dreaming if you think the IRS will enforce the tax code on illegals or their employers. They never have and they never will.
Of course it will happen. Employers of illegals are only surviving today because they are anonymous and off of the radar screen of law enforcement...we simply don't KNOW where all 1 + million such employers are operating.
But reward illegal aliens for ratting out those employers and then we *WILL* know who they are and where they operate. They'll have to answer to the IRS for taxes, unions for wages below union scale, the ACLU for wages below minimum age, INS for immigration violations, etc.
Unless we go with *your* plan to fight such registration and keep those illegal employers anonymous, at least...that's a plan that won't improve our current situation.
Rewards can do things that "requirements" can't.
Why am I against the plans for "registering" illegals?
You just stated it above, so we register a few million with a reward, how about everyone else? How are we going to enforce registration later if we can't now? What about those that don't register?
I guess you have never been in law enforcement, how is it going to be enforced and how much money and how many people will it take to enforce it?...its all a political show without teeth, same as last time around. I don't see any guarantees of enforcement...How is it physically possible to determine if 2 or 5 or 10 or 20 million jobs can't be filled by legal workers? Who is going to do it How long would it take to do that? We currently have laws on the books for that, why not just expand the numbers of visas a little instead of a blanket program?
http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1271.html
If I thought a guest worker program would work, I would support it. But under our current welfare state, they will never work. Sorry, but that's a fact. Also, if you think a reward will get an illegal to rat out another illegal, you're dreaming. I deal with illegals daily, the one thing they hate to do above all else is rat on another illegal. They will gladly get deported before rating on another amigo.
Then tell me, what are you doing that will end the current anonymity of illegal aliens and their employers?
Since you don't like Tancredo's and Bush's competing plans to reward illegal aliens for ratting out such employers by registering, what *do* you propose to do to end the anonymity of 8+ million illegals and 1+ million employers of illegals?
How are you going to end their anonymity?
What boggles my mind is you actually think this will work.
After 7 years of being on the front line against this illegal alien invasion, I'm of the opinion that this won't work as are about 20,000 of my co-workers.
Of course, we could all be wrong.
I'll tell you what Hillary's solution is -- nothing like whatever it is Tancredo will propose.
The only way Hillary can make headway with this issue is to oppose Bush but not alienate her base (pun intended) by being seen as a Tancredo ally. So she will simply condemn Tom's ideas, call them harsh, unfair, un-American, etc., and give only vague descriptions of a Utopian solution that, of course, will fall apart under serious scrutiny.
You don't enforce registration, you reward it.
Once one illegal registers, then you've got the IRS, INS, union reps, ACLU, and various do-gooders who are suddenly paying that guy's illegal employer regular visits. His entire sweatshop just got busted, all because just 1 guy took the reward for registering himself and his employer.
The plan is going to work. It has a brilliant self-preservation logic and enforcement underpinning it.
We won't need Marine Inspector and Anjin contesting this element of interloper anymore. There's going to be a really unique reordering of that encroachment threat IMO. They can protect our borders from Islamist, Chinese and Russian Mafia scum. They can go back to being Marine badasses instead of babysitters.
There is NO UPSIDE to any otherwise virtuous "border scofflaw" not deciding to take advantage of this opportunity for his future. No corrupt employer can survive.
At least when issuing a visa to a foreigner, we have a name and can do a computer check to see if that person has ever been deported for having committed a crime here in the United States. If a foreigner sneaks over the border, we have no idea who they are and we can't do a criminal check on them. There are thousands of gangbangers in Los Angeles who are illegal aliens and many of them have committed serious crimes here. By keeping out all illegal aliens, we are going to, by default, keep out some foreigners with criminals records.
It just takes 1 illegal who wants his reward to rat out an entire sweatshop. Once ratted out, everyone there who hasn't registered will be deported. Thus, they will all race to register rather than take their chances.
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