Christians Face 47 Years in Prison Because Philly Judge Calls Bible Verses

Raiders News Update ^ | 12/16/04 | Kathryn Hooks

[OB1kNOb]

Appeal to the Supreme Court last hope for Christians

“First, symbols of Christianity are removed from the public square; now, Christians are facing 47 years in prison because they preached the gospel in the public square. Stalin would be proud,” – Brian Fahling, AFA Center for Law and Policy Senior Trial Attorney.

Tupelo, MS - After a federal appeals court denied an emergency appeal to stop prosecution of 11 Christians on Tuesday, Philadelphia Municipal Court Judge William Austin Meehan ordered four of the Christians to stand trial on three felony (criminal conspiracy, ethnic intimidation, and riot) and five misdemeanor charges. If convicted, they could face up to 47 years in prison.

The Christians were arrested on October 10 for praying, singing, and reading scripture during an annual “gay pride” event known as “Outfest” in Philadelphia.

Since the federal courts did not intervene to halt the state prosecution, the last route for the Christians would be an appeal to the Supreme Court says the Christians’ attorney Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy.

“First, symbols of Christianity are removed from the public square, now, Christians are facing years in prison because they preached the gospel in the public square. Stalin would be proud,” Fahling said.

The federal appeals court in Philadelphia denied emergency relief despite video footage Fahling calls “undisputed evidence” that shows the Christians cooperating with police and continually being harassed by the Pink Angels, a group of homosexuals organized to impede the gospel message. Philadelphia city prosecutor in the case, Charles Ehrlich, attacked the Christians as “hateful” and referred to preaching the Bible as “fighting words,” the judge agreed.

Charges were dropped against the remaining seven apparently because they were not seen quoting scripture on the videotape.

The Philadelphia case represents another example of discrimination toward Christians,” said Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association national headquarters. “The past month has poured forth cases of Christian persecution seen in the higher education institution, public school systems, and the judicial court system.”

Center for Law and Policy

Contact: Kathryn Hooks 662-844-5036 American Family Association P.O. Drawer 2440 Tupelo, MS 38803 1-662-680-3886

[Zhangliqun]

He was a nutcase, hired a known pedophile to molest and rape children and get back to him with the "findings", filmed his own porno, considered that sex with animals was normal, used primarily prisoners and other odd groups for his "10%" figure, used more "research" from a Nazi pedophile. It goes on and on.

Okay, with the exception of the "considered sex with animals was normal", shouldn't any researcher worth his salt be inquiring about the abnormal sexual activity as well?

Okay, it appears everyone is losing sight of the main point of discussing Mr. Kinsey's background. It's not to determine if he was guilty of any crime, it's to determine the validity (or lack thereof) of his research. But even aside from all that, if it's true he included prison rapes in his 10% figure, that's enough to invalidate his findings for me.

[Bluegrass Conservative]

But even aside from all that, if it's true he included prison rapes in his 10% figure, that's enough to invalidate his findings for me.

Why is that? Because prison rapes are more about power than sex?

[Zhangliqun]

I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
And die to find out there isn't,
Than live my life as if there isn't,
And die to find out there is.

***

Pascal's Wager, eh?

[mvpel]

Mild-mannered or not, it doesn't mean that they didn't violate an ordinance requiring a permit. Now, I don't know if that's the case here, but I've seen that happen before and fall under the heading of "rioting".

Yes, but I've NEVER seen a simple violation of a protest-permit ordinance result in felony charges.

[Antoninus]

It means that someone who has been here a few months has little credibility when it comes to attacking a long-term Freeper's credentials on this site.

Oh, I see. So we work on a seniority system now, not one based on the merit (or lack thereof) of your argument?

In that case, I declare that your point has no merit based on my FR status--since 1998, baby. Read it and weep.

[Bluegrass Conservative]

Yes, but I've NEVER seen a simple violation of a protest-permit ordinance result in felony charges.

Good point. I would have thought it would have been a misdemeanor at worst.

[Edgerunner]

Now ya went and dun it...Ya got one of the "Earlyones" angry and he just shot both of us down...Pull the cord and hope the packer had a good day...

[Calpernia]

>>>>Pascal's Wager, eh?

I don't know. If I did I would have attributed the quote.

[biblewonk]

Certainly not a sexual perversion. Wouldn't you agree? And I wouldn't categorize Religion as a something to be made up.

Idolatry = religion, thought not truth. There are countless false religions based on various idols, including sexual addiction, but they are still religion.

[biblewonk]

Interesting, thinks for the info. I'm ashamed for actually having too little tinfoil. It takes time to get that tinfoil tuned just right. :-D

[Zhangliqun]

I wholeheartedly support free speech and assembly for all peaceable protesters. I honestly couldn't care less who they are or what their message is. I support the rights of the protesters in the article. I believe they are being oppressed because of their beliefs and denied their unalienable rights for which so many good men and women have paid for with their blood, sweat and tears.

I should certainly hope so, but I remain skeptical due to the fact you didn't mention that at all in your first post. You sounded more interested in dancing a jig. Another reason I'm skeptical is that you refer to people here as "brownshirts" for posting replies, but you DID NOT refer to the Pink Angels who blocked and intimidated the Christians as "brownshirts".

The rank hypocrisy around here concerning free speech and assembly is legendary. I can't count how many threads and how many hundreds upon hundreds of posters have been positively giddy at news of any protester they don't like being beaten, arrested and charged. Go read some of the threads around the time of the conventions. They speak for themselves.

First, if lefty protesters weren't so consistently violent, vicious, and intolerant, and lawless (all things they usually say they are there to potest), there wouldn't be such a desire for cops to be a bit more zealous in keeping these outlaws in line. Second, anytime any protesters do engage in such activities, you can count me among those other posters who are happy to finally see them get their comeuppance.

And "otherwise violate the law" is the big sticker in that statement of yours. Lately, protest outside of designated "free speech zones" has been deemed unlawful. That is blatantly unconstitutional, as the 1st Amendment declares the entire US a free speech zone. Peacefully protesting outside these zones is an act of patriotism. Those who applaud those patriots misfortunes at the hands of authorities are nothing but brown shirts and this board is filled with them.

Oh, you think THAT'S what our frustration is about? Protesters meekly stepping out of free speech zones? You think that's what makes us want to see heads get cracked? Tell me you're joking.

I don't like the idea of "free speech zones" any more than you do, but from the 1968 Democratic Convention to the '92 LA Riots (which I lived through) and WTO Convention in Seattle in '96 or '97 to this display in Philly, lefty protestors and union thugs can be counted on to consistently act like frothing-at-the-mouth lunatics with zero self-control, overturning loaded buses, shattering storefront windows and looting stores, setting cars on fire, spraying red paint on fur coats while women are wearing them, screaming threats, cutting tires, even beating, stabbing and killing people if they cross a picket line.

Do people sometimes post things in here that are over the line? Sure. But the PC frustration factor is extremely high and with good reason and we're only human.

And then you have the nerve to call us "brownshirts" for wanting cops crack down hard on people who want to sack entire cities in the name of peace and tolerance?

In fact, given all this history, IT IS A GLOWING TESTAMENT to the restraint of America's people and government that the ONLY measure they've taken against this insanity so far is these dreaded "free speech zones". Dude, count your blessings!

I'm not gleeful about it, I'm horrified. You couldn't be more wrong about my thoughts on this.

You may be sincere about that, but your illustration of Dennis Prager's Law of Conservation of Anger makes it hard for me to believe.

[PleaseNoMore]

The time is not coming. The time has come.

Amen. To borrow the title of the old hymn - Onward Christian Soldiers.

[PleaseNoMore]

I am outraged. These people were peaceful and observant of the law. Now they face this? This is an outrage.

[freeeee]

The fact that you not only are not the least bit concerned about whether or not these Christians had their civil rights violated, but are gleeful about is proof that YOU are the one who "singularly cares about positive outcomes for YOUR favorite groups".

Are you kidding? These protesters face more time in jail than most murderers and rapists, simply for expressing an unpopular opinion without a permit. This begs some serious questions: What kind of country does such a thing? What else are they capable of? How much worse will it get? I see this case akin to the canary dying in the mine. It's a symptom of serious, deep seated problems.

if lefty protesters weren't so consistently violent, vicious, and intolerant, and lawless (all things they usually say they are there to potest), there wouldn't be such a desire for cops to be a bit more zealous in keeping these outlaws in line.

I agree, that may be part of it.

But there is another part. The civil rights protests of the 60's (whether you agree with them or not) effected a monumental change in American society, and shook established powers to the bone. Government isn't stupid, and they quickly recognized the power of free assembly and civil protest to hold their shake on power. They were hell bent to prevent anything like that from ever happening again and couldn't manage to outlaw protest altogether. Hence, the "free speech zone", where you're free to speak behind a chainlink fence two miles from anywhere while surrounded by a battallion of riot police.

Oh, you think THAT'S what our frustration is about? Protesters meekly stepping out of free speech zones? You think that's what makes us want to see heads get cracked? Tell me you're joking.

Maybe I wouldn't think that if I hadn't seen it here so many times.

In fact, given all this history, IT IS A GLOWING TESTAMENT to the restraint of America's people and government that the ONLY measure they've taken against this insanity so far is these dreaded "free speech zones".

Pardon me for not doing cartwheels of joy because government has neutered yet another core liberty of the Bill of Rights.

your illustration of Dennis Prager's Law of Conservation of Anger makes it hard for me to believe.

Oh, I'm pissed about this alright. Believe it. I've just seen so much of it I've become a bit numb to it.

[Zhangliqun]

Are you kidding? These protesters face more time in jail than most murderers and rapists, simply for expressing an unpopular opinion without a permit.

These wouldn't be the ones who happen to commit all those violent crimes I listed, would they? The fact that they may have assaulted someone, that they may have resisted arrest, and as if that weren't enough, it then turns out that they may have a long rap sheet of other felonies and misdemeanors would have nothing to do with any of them getting a stretch that 'seems a bit harsh' for mere protesting without a permit, eh?

This is just like the big lie lefties tell about drug offenders, about how they're doing a 10-year stretch for mere drug possession. On the face of it, it's true and therefore easily impresses the likes of Dan Rather and Mike Wallace. Problem is, these people in most cases not only have a long arrest record all kinds of offenses drug- and non-drug related, their sentences are the result of a plea bargain in which far more serious charges were dropped in exchange for testimony against Mr. Big.

So I must ask: can you give us a SPECIFIC EXAMPLE of a protester who had no prior record, did not engage in any violent act, did not resist arrest, did not urinate or defecate in the middle of the street, etc., who spent more time in jail than most convicted murderers?

This begs some serious questions: What kind of country does such a thing? What else are they capable of? How much worse will it get? I see this case akin to the canary dying in the mine. It's a symptom of serious, deep seated problems.

I see it that way too, but for very different reasons and with very different conclusions. Another serious question that should be asked is how long the left will put up with marauding hordes sacking entire neighborhoods for their cause of peace and tolerance -- or is this the canary in the coal mine telling us just how toxic leftism really is?

I agree, that may be part of it.

But there is another part. The civil rights protests of the 60's (whether you agree with them or not) effected a monumental change in American society, and shook established powers to the bone.

You may find it shocking but I do agree with the civil rights protests of the 60's, the cause certainly. And the means in most cases too, because if you recall, most of the civil rights protests were VERY PEACEFUL AND NON-VIOLENT, especially those led by MLK, and what laws they did break were clearly unjust (e.g., Rosa Parks). They did not vandalize, they did not rape and pillage, they did not maim and kill -- and they won. Had MLK resorted to a Malcolm X "by any means necessary" strategy, they would have lost overwhelmingly. (ANOTHER SHOCKER: Having said that, however, if MLK's way failed, I would have been a lot more sympathetic toward Malcolm X's tactics.)

But it didn't fail -- yet somehow the modern lefty protester never absorbed this message. To this nano-second, they don't understand how dearly their willingly and gleefully honed public image as half-naked, drug-addled, violent perverts and lunatics has cost them in the voting booth -- especially over the last 4 years.

Government isn't stupid, and they quickly recognized the power of free assembly and civil protest to hold their shake on power. They were hell bent to prevent anything like that from ever happening again and couldn't manage to outlaw protest altogether. Hence, the "free speech zone", where you're free to speak behind a chainlink fence two miles from anywhere while surrounded by a battallion of riot police.

CONSPIRACY ALERT! CONSPIRACY ALERT! WHOOOOOP!!...WHOOOOP!!.....WHOOOOP!! Your credibility is waning. The federal, state and local goverments waited 40 years after MLK to come up with a means of STOPPING PEACEFUL PROTESTS, as opposed to being a reluctant measure to prevent violence from a crowd that has a long history of violence? The violence in Chicago, LA, Seattle, and all points in between over the last 40 years that even you grudgingly admit earlier "might be part of the problem" has NOTHING to with this?

The same violence you keep pretending isn't happening as if law enforcement should be condemn us all to repeat history by pretending that all protesters are Henry David Thoreau? They waited 40 years to retroactively get at MLK? What are you going to tell us next, the CIA controls earthquakes and weather and the K on the Snapple bottle means Ku Klux Klan?

I guarantee you that if the left stops the violence, the free speech zones will soon be nothing but a footnote in history books.

Oh, you think THAT'S what our frustration is about? Protesters meekly stepping out of free speech zones? You think that's what makes us want to see heads get cracked? Tell me you're joking.

Maybe I wouldn't think that if I hadn't seen it here so many times.

And you've never seen anything of the kind at Democratic Underground or MoveOn.Org or Michael Moore's website? Please! Multiply the worst of what you find here by a hundred and that's your typical lefty web forum.

Pardon me for not doing cartwheels of joy because government has neutered yet another core liberty of the Bill of Rights.

Pardon me for being equally upset that the violent anti-violence pro-tolerance left has forced us down this road.

Oh, I'm pissed about this alright. Believe it. I've just seen so much of it I've become a bit numb to it.

It was probably arrogant of me to throw something at you that I suspected you weren't aware of. Dennis Prager is a radio talk show host who came up with this "law" of conservation of anger as a sort of combination of the Law of Conservation of Energy and a Jewish proverb: "Those who are kind to the cruel will be cruel to the kind."

In other words, anger cannot be repressed, it just surfaces elsewhere, like a wet bar of soap in water. In your case, you sweep your outrage at violent protesters and their violation of others' civil rights in the name of anti-violence and civil rights under the rug of rationalization and excuses -- but then it pops up elsewhere in the form of you being angry at people like me for "causing" this violence by voting the "wrong way". Like blaming a store clerk for a liquor store robbery.

[Born in a Rage]

Years ago, when I lived in Tempe, I went to a Sun Devils game. A street preacher yelled at and told me that I and my children would burn in hell because I went to a sporting event of a team with the name "Sun Devils". She was nuts.

[freeeee]

Have to go now, will answer your post tomorrow.

Have a good night.

[1john2 3and4]

You would have to get out of it first.

LOL...well, you're not gonna find me messing with either of you! (btw, sometimes I feel a bit panglossian too)

[Agitate]

They don't get prosecuted. Gays threw condoms at newly ordained priest at Holy Cross Cathedral, they did not get prosecuted.

Not that I don't believe you, but would you or anybody happen to have a link for this? For my own reference.

---

WAKE UP AMERICA	"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, aka CAIR President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies A Palestinian who grew up in a refugee camp in Jordan.
ANTI-Cair -- Little Green Footballs -- JIHAD Watch -- DHIMMI Watch -- internet haganáh -- FaithFreedom -- Answering Islam -- Daniel Pipes -- Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) -- MEMRI TV-Videos

[Agitate]

Doesn't one of the charges they face call the bible the "instruments of crime?"

---

WAKE UP AMERICA	"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, aka CAIR President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies A Palestinian who grew up in a refugee camp in Jordan.
ANTI-Cair -- Little Green Footballs -- JIHAD Watch -- DHIMMI Watch -- internet haganáh -- FaithFreedom -- Answering Islam -- Daniel Pipes -- Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) -- MEMRI TV-Videos