Privacy Experts Shun Black Boxes (electronic data recorders now mandatory in all cars)

FoxNews ^ | Nov. 11, 2004 | Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

[FairOpinion]

Some safety and privacy experts are reacting with apprehension, others with all out condemnation over a recent ruling by the National Transportation Safety Board to require electronic data recorders or "black boxes" in all new cars manufactured in the United States.

"I take offense that this personal property of individuals is now being designed by the federal government," said Jim Harper, privacy attorney and editor of Privacilla.org.

EDRs are certainly not new. Information gathered on black boxes — typically everything from speed, brake pressure, seat belt use and air bag deployment — has already been used in determining guilt in criminal and civil cases across the country.

Privacy experts warn that once cars are outfitted for the most limited data recording, the government will find a way to argue it’s for drivers’ "own good" to collect more. They point to a push in recent years to install GPS in all cars so that emergency officials can easily find incapacitated accident victims.

"When you are telling someone it is for their own good, then it should be their own choice, they should be able to say ‘no,’" said professor Yale Kamisar of the University of Michigan Law School. "None of these things work out the way they are supposed to. Why should we believe all of these assurances when they haven’t been honored in the past?"

[George W. Bush]

I wouldn't care if it was on my vehicle as I have nothing to hide.

I don't like the suggestion that people should have no objection unless they're hiding something.

Maybe Tom Ridge should strip search you and give you a cavity probe at the airport. After all, you have nothing to hide, do you?

[paul51]

"We need to record all conversations within the 'cabin' to determine accidents which may have been caused by 'violence against a spouse'"

It's also for the children

[Smokin' Joe]

Neat to know. My newest vehicle is an '82 Harley. Everything else hails from the '70s.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

When the part of the computer that control the shut off car mode fails and you are stranded.
Figure a large towing bill and a larger bill to replace the computer.

[Flavius]

I see a future in jamming equipment...

[Fiddlstix]

1984 only missed it by 20 years.

It sure looks like it.

[Major_Risktaker]

The information about my driving habits is NONE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS.

Just a guess.

The insurance business has insurance lobbyists fighting trial attorney's via the congress.

[tm22721]

Nope not in my car.

My EE skills may come in handy.

BUMP

[gnarledmaw]

The NTSB recommended...that black boxes be mandated..."We have a long history of using data recorders in other modes of transportation and found them extremely useful,"...pointing to aircraft

So I need a black box to help protect my vehicle from "sparks in the central fuel tank", right?

[tuffydoodle]

Oh man, I had a daydream about that very scenario just this morning. wooo woooo!!

[RinkRat23]

>>>I agree with you on the Government part. They have no business in my car at all...


I agree with you that they have no business in your car. But that would only be if it remains in your driveway.

The government does have the "business" of regulating it once it leaves your driveway and takes to the public, and therefore the government's streets. This is no different than licensing of drivers, registration of vehicles or even traffics laws. Once the "the people" make traffic and safety laws through the legislative process, it becomes the duty of the government through the executive process to equitably enforce the laws. And since a large portion of our public can no longer be counted on to be responsible for its individual actions, the government must
be thrust into the role of regulator.

It is not the car that speeds, zig-zags and weaves in and out of traffic with reckless abandon and at the peril of everyone else in the vicinity, it is the driver. And what better way to help us good drivers than to have a "black box" in every car. What are you afraid of?

[tuffydoodle]

Here comes the flames, buddy! Duck!!!

(by the way, I absolutely agree with you)

[ExSoldier]

Here's a question: Is it possible to disable this without harming the vehicle or the gov't knowing you did so?

[jjmcgo]

Actually, people who think as you do have something hide. You should hide the fact that you have absolutely no respect for the First and Fourth Amendments to the Constitution.
A website dedicated to freedom is not the place to advocate cowardly obeisance to government intrusion on our privacy.

[Condor51]

But these boxes will slow down lawsuits from greedy plaintiffs who injure themselves while driving recklessly. When these folks try to claim they were going "about the speed limit", we will be able to do more than just roll our eyes and sigh. With all due respect, they won't.

I have to get to work so I'll try give a quick example:

About six-seven years ago there was a guy who was driving a Chevy Blazer, had an accident, rolled over, door opened, he was thrown out and injured, sued G.M. and was awarded something like $35 million.

However, the guy was DRUNK - as he was CONVICTED of DUI at the time, he also admitted in court he was not wearing his seat belt AND also admitted he didn't have the door locked. The JURY still found G.M. at fault!

G.M. naturally appealed and I don't know that outcome. But the point is NOTHING will stop idiot juries from giving some other idiot a big sack of money. I don't even think tort reform would apply/help here. Only having JUDGES that won't let stuff like this see the light of day will help.

[B4Ranch]

>>This won't last<<

Taking bets? I've got a C-Note here.

[B4Ranch]

>>I have no problem with Car Rental companies doing it...<<

Even if they don't tell you about it first?

[Veloxherc]

If the gov. and auto shops can read this info, whats to stop us from reading it and then erasing it.

If there is a law about having to have one of these tings, there could be a device that plugs in and erases all the data. So if you were in a crash plug it in hit delete. Play dumb "data gone? I do not know I was just in a car wreak"

[af_vet_rr]

Yet this kind of stuff keeps being decided, without any outcry from anyone.

When you keep being told that everything the government does is "for your own good", many people begin to believe that.