Privacy Experts Shun Black Boxes (electronic data recorders now mandatory in all cars)

FoxNews ^ | Nov. 11, 2004 | Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

[FairOpinion]

Some safety and privacy experts are reacting with apprehension, others with all out condemnation over a recent ruling by the National Transportation Safety Board to require electronic data recorders or "black boxes" in all new cars manufactured in the United States.

"I take offense that this personal property of individuals is now being designed by the federal government," said Jim Harper, privacy attorney and editor of Privacilla.org.

EDRs are certainly not new. Information gathered on black boxes — typically everything from speed, brake pressure, seat belt use and air bag deployment — has already been used in determining guilt in criminal and civil cases across the country.

Privacy experts warn that once cars are outfitted for the most limited data recording, the government will find a way to argue it’s for drivers’ "own good" to collect more. They point to a push in recent years to install GPS in all cars so that emergency officials can easily find incapacitated accident victims.

"When you are telling someone it is for their own good, then it should be their own choice, they should be able to say ‘no,’" said professor Yale Kamisar of the University of Michigan Law School. "None of these things work out the way they are supposed to. Why should we believe all of these assurances when they haven’t been honored in the past?"

[FairOpinion]

I am totally opposed to this. The information about my driving habits is NONE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS.

Yet this kind of stuff keeps being decided, without any outcry from anyone.

People who scream to high heaven about some common sense measures against terrorism say nothing about such intrusion in law abiding citizens privacy for absolutely no good reason.

[FairOpinion]

Next they are going to put cameras in your car and record what you do, to makes sure you are not talking on your cell phone, shaving, eating, drinking coffee, while in your car.

Then come the recorders and cameras in your home, to make sure you are eating healthy and exercizing.

1984 only missed it by 20 years.

[Buckeye McFrog]

a perfect example of how the country can electorally keep moving to the right, even as all of the wonks who populate the Federal bureaus keep tacking to the left.

Grab hold of your Congressman and start screaming now!

[Mikey_1962]

I would be nice if stolen cars could be identified and de-activated by satellite... no more car chases.

[orangelobster]

I have never heard about this until now. Only a bueracratic fathead could embrace this sort of legislation.

[thackney]

I would be nice if stolen cars could be identified and de-activated by satellite... no more car chases.

And maybe if the gov't wanted to talk to you about something else, like taxes or gun ownership, they could shut your car down.

[Porterville]

This won't last

[Constitution Day]

Do a search on "OBD III". Interesting and creepy stuff.

OBD II is what's now being used; I think OBD III standards are still being worked out.

[montag813]

Want to make some big money? Start a business which REMOVES these boxes, and nothing else. then sit back and watch as the your bank balance explodes.

[ez]

"Insurance" is the hammer of Big Brother's toolbox.

[FoxInSocks]

Global positioning systems are being used by car rental companies to track where renters are going and how fast they are driving. GPS also allows rental car companies to shut off the engine of a car and lock a renter out of it. It’s the same technology used by OnStar, which promises to be a guardian angel for car owners who are locked out or report a vehicle stolen.

[FairOpinion]

"Owners also have no legal protections to keep them from being forced to hand over that information to another party if a court order demanded it.

"I think (owners) have to be told of whatever data there is — and what is being retained longterm. What are the storage conditions? Will they keep it confidential or will they have to release information to anybody?" said professor John Soma, director of the Privacy Center (search) at Denver University.

"Without all of these concerns written into it, then obviously the recommendation is completely unacceptable," he said."

===

And people aren't even told about it. They may catch this article, or they may not, but there is no notification, when they buy the car, they will just find out the hard way.


And I bet you didn't know this either:

"Black boxes, or "EDRs" have been fitted into every General Motors car in its 2004 line and is in a number of Ford models — about 15 percent of all vehicles on the road today, according to road safety experts."

[FairOpinion]

They can make it a felony to temper with the black boxes. Remember, "they are the government and they are here to help us, for our own good".

[montag813]

Privacy experts warn that once cars are outfitted for the most limited data recording, the government will find a way to argue it’s for drivers’ "own good" to collect more.

"We need to record all conversations within the 'cabin' to determine accidents which may have been caused by 'violence against a spouse'"

[KevinDavis]

I have no problem with Car Rental companies doing it...

[Old Professer]

I'm waiting for the GPS to be turned into an advertising medium; when your "change oil" light comes on, the GPS displays a list of Jiffy Lubes near your location...

[Fierce Allegiance]

I would be willing to bet insurance compaines will void your insurance, and you won't pass inspection if the black box is removed.

I surance companies love this because they can say you were speeding, etc and deny the claim.

Did you know the Gov't can listen in on anyone who has OnStar? Scary stuff, if you ask me.

[Wolfie]

They can make it a felony to temper with the black boxes.

I'm assuming that's part and parcel to the whole deal.

[pajama pundit]

Bought my wife a new car because, well you know. However, I refuse to drive one. I will only drive cars (trucks) that are over 25 years old. They are rebuilt like new, low personal property taxes, no emmisions test (I can build the engine to have both greater horsepower and to be more efficent), and lower insurance costs. And they're fun to drive.

[FairOpinion]

Yes, it'a a big difference. Rental car companies put them in their own cars, the renters are informed, you have a choice of renting or not, or from that company or someone else.

But there is a big difference when the GOVERNMENT does it and it's mandatory for everyone. That is not a safety issue, that is invasion of privacy. Note the article says the owners have no say in the use of this data, i.e. the government just takes this information, you don't have any right to object, they don't need your permission. Isn't this also illegal search and seizure?