Posted on 11/08/2004 7:28:03 PM PST by carrier-aviator
Is anyone else as sick as I am of the one-for-one substitution of the word "Hoilday" for "Christmas," as in Holiday Party, Holiday Shopping, Holiday Season, the Baby's First "Holiday." Christmas is a federal holiday just like Veterans' Day or Thanksgiving. Why shouldn't we mention it?
Take the pledge: refuse to use the word "Holiday" when "Christmas" is correct. To your neighbors and fellow employees say MERRY CHRISTMAS, never Happy Holidays, and if they object simply tell them you are wishing them happiness on the upcoming federal holiday. If they object further, ask them if they'll be going to work on December 25th.
You can run around and shout Merry Christmas all you want. You cannot, however, tell businesses that they must have a Christmas party or that the president must send out Christmas cards.
So, Christmas is different than all the other federal holidays?
If my office has a Labor Day picnic we should be sensitive to non-laborers and call it an "Early September Picnic?"
Or to spare the delciate feelings of non-veterans, if the President were to hold a Veterans Day reception he should have to call it "Mid-November Celebration in Honor of People that Wore Uniforms during times of National Crisis"?
Please tell me why the official name given to the National Holiday on December 25th is so unacceptable.
Why should a business call it a Christmas Party if they do not want to? Are you some sort of authoritarian?
That question is totally non-sensical.
If you are having a party on Martin Luther King Day you don't call, "A Party in Honor of that Black Reverend Assassinated in 1968."
If you have a party dedicated to the 4th of July, you call it a 4th of July Party, not "A Party in Honor of the Day some old white men signed parchment in Philadelphia about 200 years ago."
If you have a party in honor of the sole federal holiday in December, you name the party for that holiday.
You are free to call it anything you want. But what force would ever make you (or anyone) not want to use the proper name for it? Why is the federal holiday on December 25th so difficult for you to accept?
You are obviously paranoid. Most citis put up nativity scenes and Christmas trees. Even L.A. does. So your anti-Chritian dragons are your own mental problems.
Why is the federal holiday on December 25th so difficult for you to accept?
So it's a federal holiday. Plenty of people work on Labor Day, in case you hadn't noticed. The malls are open on July 4th. I don't see you going on a crusdade about that.
Friday, December 31 ****... New Year's Day 2005
I thought it was "Happy Holidays" to mean both Christmas and New Years Day. They don't say Happy Holiday.
People can work whenever they want. But until 30 or so years ago people called the Holiday on December 25th by its proper name.
You state that cities put up Nativity scenes. I don't think so. On MLK Day you can erect a statue of MLK on the lawn of City Hall, but on Christmas Day, a day selected by the Congress to honor the birth of Jesus Christ, you dare not display a Nativity Scene with the likeness of Jesus Christ on that same lawn. Why can't "we the people" celebrate the full meaning of the Christmas federal holiday as we do on the MLK federal holiday?
Thirty yars ago stores held "Christmas Sales." There were "Christmas Parties." There was "Christmas Break" from school.
WHY did all that change? Or, more importantly, what was the goal of those who pushed those changes? Why, of the ten federal holidays, was only Christmas Day targeted for the name change?
Flag Day is near the 4th of July, yet I've never been to a 4th of July Party whose name was changed to incoporate the nearby, yet minor, Flag Day. So, why do Christmas parties suffer a name change in order to incorporate a similarly near, (and by your admission) minor Holy Day observed by 2% of the population?
Again, people can call their December parties by any name they want, BUT WHY HAS THE NAME THAT WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE FIRST 200 YEARS OF THE REPUBLIC CHANGED, AND WHO OR WHAT FORCES HAVE PROPELLED THE CHANGE?
PS: Easter has also lost events associated with its name. Easter Break, Easter Sales, Easter Baskets have all had their names changed. Of course, Easter is not a federal holiday. But as we both know, and as you refuse to admit, the reason why people like you want to excise the word "Christmas" from the lexicon is not bacuse it is a Holiday, but because it is also a Christian Holy Day. Easter, being another (and even more important) Christian Holy Day has suffered a similar fate to that of Christmas. Coinicidence? I don't think so.
I never said I wanted to excise Christmas from the lexicon. I have said to me it is a meaningless day. You are the one who wrote in a a misdirected FReepmail that you do not be,ieve that I neither celebrate nor receive any benefitr from Christmas. Explain that one.
Easter isn't a federal holiday. So what?
Easter, being another (and even more important) Christian Holy Day
Tell me again how bunnies, chocolate and eggs (a nice fertility symbol, btw) factor into your religion's messianic story?
So, why do Christmas parties suffer a name change in order to incorporate a similarly near, (and by your admission) minor Holy Day observed by 2% of the population?
Yep...it's the fault of all the Joooooooos. I knew that one was coming. Here's a little news bit: We had Jews, Chriostians, ateists, and a Hindu in my office. Not everyone is a trad Catholic.
Like you want to excise the word "Christmas" from the lexicon is not bacuse it is a Holiday, but because it is also a Christian Holy Day. Easter, being another (and even more important) Christian Holy Day has suffered a similar fate to that of Christmas. Coinicidence? I don't think so.
I never said I wanted to excise Christmas from the lexicon. I have said to me it is a meaningless day. You are the one who wrote in a a misdirected FReepmail that you do not believe that I neither celebrate nor receive any benefit from Christmas. Explain that one.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I know of NO company where Christmas is NOT a paid holiday. So, if you don't work, you receive pay for the day. If you do work, you receive the holiday + regular pay. Looks like a benefit to me.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Easter isn't a federal holiday. So what?
All my previous arguments were about your treating the federal holiday of Christmas differently than other federal holidays. So, when I shifted to discussion of Easter, I wanted to make it clear I wasn't using the "federal holiday" arguments.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Easter, being another (and even more important) Christian Holy Day.
Tell me again how bunnies, chocolate and eggs (a nice fertility symbol, btw) factor into your religion's messianic story?
I KNEW when I started to write about Easter that this would be your reply. Easter the Holy Day, because it is observed by some 90% of the population has become more than a Holy Day. It is a cultural event. The sales, breaks, and baskets that used to bear the name "Easter" were reflective of that culture. These things do not diminish in any way the importance devout Christians attribute to the Resurrection of Jesus. Your words indicate disdain and dismissal of the HOLIEST tenet of Christianity. But, this, of course, is not surprising.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So, why do Christmas parties suffer a name change in order to incorporate a similarly near, (and by your admission) minor Holy Day observed by 2% of the population?
Yep...it's the fault of all the Joooooooos. I knew that one was coming. Here's a little news bit: We had Jews, Chriostians, ateists, and a Hindu in my office. Not everyone is a trad Catholic.
Excuse me. You brought up the minor status of Chanukah. The word "Holiday" was chosen by those who opposed the word Christmas. "Happy Holidays" is the theme. So, o what alternate or additonal holiday could people be referring other than Chanukah? Is there a Hindu holiday in December? Is the birthday of famous atheist Madeline Murray O'Hare in December? I've been to many parties in December. Some were properly named for the holiday we were celebrating (Christmas). Others bore the name "Holiday" and there were menorahs and Stars of David (but, interestingly, no crucifixes) at them (Christians were only permitted Santa Claus, reindeers, and candy canes). But I haven't been to any displaying sacred cows, or photos of Ms. O'Hare. So, let's not play that canard.
I work as a thank you to my boss who is kind enough to let me take off the many holidays I do take off. It's the same reason I put in a few hours on Sundays; I leave early on Fridays in the winter. I am not overtime at all. It's called a favor.
Your words indicate disdain and dismissal of the HOLIEST tenet of Christianity. But, this, of course, is not surprising.
And Christians have never had disdain for Jews. Please.
I guess you live in a shitty city then that has no trees or nativity scenes for Christmas. Most cities in L.A. County have one or both.
And quite honestly, I have never been offended by hearing Merry Christmas. I used to be Catholic. I converted to Judaism several years ago and never looked back. But it sure was fun watching you foam at the mouth.
And I am happy to say that the majority of Christians I know fight real problems. Not petty, penny ante crap like this.
About a dozen posts ago I said I would cease posting. Then I mistakenly sent yet one more post to you, and that re-opened the debate. This WILL BE my final post.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I know of NO company where Christmas is NOT a paid holiday. So, if you don't work, you receive pay for the day. If you do work, you receive the holiday + regular pay. Looks like a benefit to me.
I work as a thank you to my boss who is kind enough to let me take off the many holidays I do take off. It's the same reason I put in a few hours on Sundays; I leave early on Fridays in the winter. I am not overtime at all. It's called a favor.
***** OK, fine. It seems to me that the flexibility you get, for other periods of time off, by working Christmas, is a benefit. But I won't argue with you on this point. Most detractors of Christmas that I know are only too happy, hypocritically, to take the day they disdain off. If you truly don't benefit then you are a rarity and are to be commended.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Your words indicate disdain and dismissal of the HOLIEST tenet of Christianity. But, this, of course, is not surprising.
And Christians have never had disdain for Jews. Please.
*****Of course Christians have had disdain for Jews and vice versa. But I am talking about YOU. I never denigrated your religion. As a matter of fact I said I respected it (especially its Orthodox adherents). But that didn't stop YOU from taking a cheap shot at mine.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I guess you live in a shitty city then that has no trees or nativity scenes for Christmas. Most cities in L.A. County have one or both.
*****NYC, DC, Boston. Menorahs and Stars of David are allowed at "Holiday" observances there. Crucifixes and Nativity Scenes are not. Christians are only allowed pagan symbols like reindeer, Frosty the Snowman, wooden soldiers and "Holiday" trees.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
And quite honestly, I have never been offended by hearing Merry Christmas. I used to be Catholic. I converted to Judaism several years ago and never looked back. But it sure was fun watching you foam at the mouth.
And I am happy to say that the majority of Christians I know fight real problems. Not petty, penny ante crap like this.
******The two aren't mutually exclusive. I've fought real problems my entire life. I am a retired "carrier-aviator" (that is, Navy pilot). I've conducted exercises with the Israeli Navy and Air Force. I've studied and practiced defense plans for friendly nations (i.e. Israel) in the Middle East. Hundreds of millions of Americans (I included) have paid taxes, a nice portion of which go to the Jewish state. And, I don't complain. I totally support Israel against the murderous Palestinians.
But the whole point of all these posts is that someone or something is trying to change traditions of America that endured from Independence until about 30 years ago. Who cares that Christmas is now "Holiday"? Who cares that Easter Break is now spring break, and that Good Friday, which used to be a solemn day, is now a day no different than any other? I do. And, so do lots of other ordinary Americans.
Who or what are the forces that have changed and want to continue to diminish these things? As I have mentioned, at least as far I have been able to observe it has been secularists, atheists, and militant, anti-Christian, non-religious Jews. I see it in the morphing of Christmas events into "Holiday" events by inserting Chanukah into the mix. I saw it in New York when Easter Break became Spring Break, and then centers around Passover with Holy Thursday and Good Friday becoming days of school attendance.
I guess it is easier to see the "Jewish" hand in all of this than it is to see the secularist or atheist hand (because of the Chanukah and Passover examples cited above). And when I see these conflicts in the press, it is invariably a Jewish name that has brought suit against a city because of a Nativity scene at City Hall or whose child is being permanently and emotionally scarred because he or she attends a school where the 5-year olders dress as angels (gasp!) for the Christmas/Holiday pageant. If this is an over-reaction or erroneous analysis I'd be more than willing to hear an alternate theory.
I have degrees in sociology, politics, and demographics and I believe I have a good feel for the pulse of the American people. Most are deeply offended at the assault on these simple aspects of their culture. These feelings were partially displayed in the 2004 elections. Just as they don't like unelected judges telling them how to think about gay marriage, they don't like others telling them that phrases like "Merry Christmas" are unacceptable, or that their kids have to attend school on Good Friday.
Well, I won't belabor this. Depsite the moments of acrimony I've enjoyed and benefitted from hearing you point of view. Bye.
When you send FReepmail to someone, please make sure you put the correct receiver's name in the To: line.
I really have no idea why you included me in your post (#181).
What was it that I said that made you feel that I am some sort of "brainiac."
And are you in the habit of telling people with whom you disagree to "shut their pieholes"?
I hope you will excuse me for saying this, but it seems to me tha tyou are reacting most angrily to something that is not being said in order to give you offense.
When one of my Jewish friends wishes me a Happy Passover or a Happy Hannukah, I (and I am speaking here only for myself) truly do not feel any sort of need to respond with anything that sounds defensive or with anything that could be perceived as suggesting that the deeply held religious beliefs of my Jewish friends are trivial or have no meaning.
I don't do that because I don't like offending people of other faiths simply because they are of other faiths.
And why would I say, in response to another person wish for my happines on a particular day or during a particular few days of the year with something like, "Thanks, but I don't believe in Passover" Or "Thanks, but Hannukah has no meaning for me."
Both of those comments, it seems to me, are very much "in your face" and truly ungracious responses to a mere wish from another person for my happines.
It is just inconceivable to me, what with all the hatred and evil in this world, that I would ever wish to respoond to another person -- one who has wished me happiness on a day with anything other than a sincere "thank you."
It seems to me that if I were to then extend nmy response to say something dismissive like, "I don't celebrate Hannuikah. Have a good one.", that I might want to take some time to see why it is that I choose to repond to gracious good wishes for my happines with words that telgraph resentment that another person has wished me happiness.
By the way, Happy November 12th.
I am in the habit of telling people that when they have no idea what they are talking about. As in, "she doesn't celebrate Christmas? I can't believe that.".
Until I read that sentence from you, Bella_Bru, I considered you to be a person with whom I disagreed on some of the points raised in this thread.
But I really had no idea you actually held Christianity in such low esteem.
I bet you would be surprized if I were to tell you that that sentence of yours has caused me to think that you might be a bigot.
I hope that I am wrong. Bigotry in any form -- but esepcially bigotry against people of other faiths -- is just so -- well, unseemly.
I bet some of your best friends are Christians, too.
While you may have no contempt for Christians, it would appear, based on your snide statement in post #195, that you have a deep and abiding contempt for Christianity.
My boyfrind, FReeper StoneColdGOP, is Christian. I'm sleeping with one, so I really cannot have any great contempt then, can I? Of course, I have contempt for someon telling me I will honor their holiday. I no more need to honor Christmas than I need to honor Ramadan or the Summer Solstice.
Funny you should mention. Just the other day I received my handbook entitled, "Media and You: The Ins and Outs of Controlling the World Through the Media". < /sarcasm>
Tell Hank I'll make some calls and see what I can do.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.