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Putin: Ally or Terrorist? (Russian FSB/KGB Real Culprits Behind "Chechen Terrorism")
The New American ^ | February 2002 | William Jasper

Posted on 09/21/2004 8:24:29 PM PDT by GIJoel

Putin: Ally or Terrorist? by William F. Jasper

Counting Vladimir Putin as an ally against terrorism ignores his career in the murderous KGB/FSB and his ongoing support for terrorist regimes and organizations.

‘‘Lena Goncharuk, aged 38, said that she was the only one to survive out of a group of six who were ordered out of the cellar where they had been hiding and shot at point blank range. Resting in her hospital bed, her voice barely rising above a whisper, she said she had survived only by pretending to be dead." So reported Paul Wood from the Chechen border for The Independent of London on February 6, 2000, as "triumphant" Russian troops occupied Grozny, the capital of Chechnya. Wood’s article, entitled "Chechnya’s civilians put to the sword," continued with Mrs. Goncharuk’s story:

"They [the Russian soldiers] were asking for cigarettes, then they asked, ‘Do you have a radio,’ and they said, ‘Give it to us,’" she said, explaining that the four women and two men were sent back down into the cellar after handing over their valuables.

"We hadn’t even sat down," she went on, "then they began throwing grenades into the cellar and shooting. We all were crying and suffocating, the smell was unbearable. We were crying out, we could not see anything but they continued to shoot.

"We said, ‘Guys what are you doing? We are civilians.’ They stopped shooting and they said to come out of the cellar. Our legs and heads were wounded and we could hardly move but we got up, supporting each other.

"The first out were two Russian women, Luda and Natasha. We were standing inside the garage over the cellar and they started shooting at point blank range. The others were twisting in pain.... Natasha was lying dead already....

"There was one old man with us. His head was covered in blood.... Then they started firing again.

"If I had looked up I would have been shot. I opened my eye just a little bit, all I saw was the muzzles of their guns and their boots."

Putin’s "Liberation"

Two hospital beds down from Lena Goncharuk was another victim of the Russian "liberation." Unlike Goncharuk, Hedi Makhauri, a 40-year-old Chechen mother, had not been trapped inside besieged Grozny; along with tens of thousands of other refugees, she had fled to neighboring Ingushetia.

With Russian troops establishing themselves in the capital, and the Russian bombing and shelling apparently over, she had thought it safe to go back and check on her house. Paul Wood’s report briefly recounts her ordeal:

"They said it was a liberated area," she said, frail and thin, clutching her hospital sheet to her chin, telling us that when she got to her street, she and two other Chechen women saw Russian soldiers loading stolen goods from the houses into one of their armoured vehicles.

"They took us to the armoured vehicle and they said to go inside. We were afraid as they put blindfolds on us. We said, ‘Why, we are not criminals, we have just come to see our houses.’ They said it was orders.

"They said they would take us to the police headquarters, but they just took us around the corner. It was just ruins all around. Me and my neighbour were clutching each other’s hand. We said: ‘Why are you taking us here, there are no police here.’ They said: ‘Just wait, they will come.’

"The other woman said, ‘Take whatever you want, we have children, just don’t kill us.’ They made us go into one little room. They just shot her in the head. She didn’t even have time to say, ‘Let me go.’ They just shot her. Hedi said that the Russian soldiers were tugging at the gold ring on her finger.

"It slipped off just as they decided to get a knife to sever her finger and the ring along with it. They also took her ear-rings and her money, 400 roubles, about £8.

"Then they put an old mattress over her body, poured petrol on, and lit it. The mattress was wet and did not catch light, only smouldered as they walked away. If I cried they would have killed me," she said.

"They said it was a liberated area"? Where did Hedi Makhauri and many others less fortunate than her get such calamitous disinformation? Why, from no less an authority than Vladimir Putin, then the acting president of Russia. Mr. Putin appeared on Russian national television on Sunday, February 6, 2000, to announce that the last stronghold of the Chechen "terrorists" in Grozny had been taken and the Russian flag had been hoisted over the smoldering ruins of the capital. "Thus, we can say that the operation to liberate Grozny is over," declared Putin.

The seven-year campaign of genocide against Chechnya has been largely invisible to the outside world. The Russian armed forces and security services have successfully kept most of the Western media and humanitarian-aid organizations out, while, at the same time, preventing refugees from escaping with eye-witness details of the brutal subjugation. "Let us call it by its real name," wrote Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby on October 28, 1999. "What Russia is committing in Chechnya is the mass murder of civilians.... And not only is the West failing to rise up against his [Putin’s] bloodbath, it is actively helping to finance it," directly through U.S. foreign aid to the Russian government, as well as indirectly via the U.S. taxpayer-funded International Monetary Fund.

Convergence Choir

Tragically, far too few of Mr. Jacoby’s colleagues in the Western media have shared his outrage over the ongoing slaughter in Chechnya; the coverage of Putin’s campaign of terror against Chechen civilians has been sporadic and the condemnations tepid. Since the September 11th terrorist attacks, criticism of the Chechen pogrom has all but evaporated, as the Bush administration has rushed to embrace Russia as our valued "ally" in the war on terrorism.

New York Times correspondent Bill Keller typified this response in an October 6th article, in which he stated: "We need the Russians now, as we needed Stalin once, and if that means our president pulls a punch on the subject of the indiscriminate civil carnage in Chechnya, I can live with that; the punch had no muscle behind it anyway." Mr. Keller and other pragmatists of his ilk can apparently "live with" patently immoral policies like genocide, turning a blind eye to the unpleasant bloodletting as long as the perpetrator advances the globalist agenda of East-West convergence.

On November 23rd, the Times offered an even more startling re-evaluation of Russia as NATO’s new partner in the war on terrorism. Aleksandr Rahr, a scholar at the German Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) in Berlin, told the Times: "What changed radically on September 11th was the complete disappearance of Russia as a threat to Europe. It’s completely gone." The German CFR is a sister to the American CFR, this country’s "ruling establishment," and Mr. Rahr was trilling the same convergence theme as his U.S. counterparts. Mr. Rahr, along with other European and American CFR one-worlders, advocates a full, lusty embrace of Russia against our new common enemy.

One of the most enthusiastic advocates of this policy of NATO-Russia embrace is none other than Lord Robertson, the current NATO chief. "We sense very strong indications from President Putin in recent weeks that he wants to change the way that Russia does business," the November 23rd New York Times quoted Robertson as saying. "We take that at face value and we will work on that basis," he continued. "The Russian response to the terrible attacks on the United States," he said, "has … been the reaction of a real and genuine friend." "In the past," said Robertson, "we were divided by walls and fences and by ideology and by armies. Today the threats to the Russian people are very similar, if not exactly the same as, the threats to the people in the NATO countries and the West."

Does Lord Robertson, the head of the West’s military alliance, truly buy the Kremlin line that the pounding of Chechen cities and villages into rubble, the rampant slaughter of civilians, and the driving of hundreds of thousands of refugees into camps, neighboring provinces, and foreign exile are the same as fighting terrorists who carry out acts like the 9-11 Black Tuesday attack? Whether or not he truly believes it, Robertson is definitely retailing that line with a passion. "To utter such nonsense, a top Western official has to be either a closet Communist or one of Lenin’s ‘useful idiots,’" says Christopher Story, editor and publisher of the authoritative London-based Soviet Analyst.

One of the most reliable analysts of Russian affairs and a keen observer of British power politics, Mr. Story clearly believes Robertson to be of the former category. "Look, Robertson was well known in Britain as a former Communist trade union agitator when Tony Blair picked him to be secretary of state for defense," Story told The New American. "Blair is to the left of Clinton and has been clear over in the Kremlin camp all along. The September 11th attacks have given him the opportunity to advance his pro-Moscow agenda while appearing to be pro-military, pro-American, and anti-terrorist." Story points out that when a member of parliament queried the British Fabian Socialist Society concerning charges that certain members of the Blair cabinet were members of the socialist group, the secretary of the Fabian Society publicly confirmed that 20 of Blair’s 23 cabinet officials were indeed members in good standing with the organization. For over a century, notes Story, the Fabians have played a crucial role in implementing Marxist-Leninist policies in the British Commonwealth.

"Lord Robertson the former Communist is quite obviously a continuing covert Communist who is enthusiastically implementing the continuing Soviet strategy against the West — from the highest office in NATO, no less," warns Story. "What makes this even more troubling is that Robertson was appointed NATO secretary-general following Javier Solana, a ‘former’ Spanish Communist, who shared the same love affair with Moscow. Solana has now been transferred to a key position within the European Commission of the EU [European Union], where he and his fellow radicals are working in concert with Robertson, Blair, Germany’s Joschka Fischer, Italy’s Romano Prodi, and other subversives to convert NATO and the EU completely into an oppressive Soviet collective."

The Russians have always been master chess players, reminds Story, and they have been playing the terrorist gambit very successfully. "If the people of the West do not wake up soon to this fact, we will soon be in checkmate," he warns.

Covert Strategy, Deadly Deception

The Russian war against Chechnya is, of course, central to the current U.S.-Russian embrace as allies in the war against terrorism. For the Russians and their CFR apologists in the U.S., it provides an important test of the American public’s gullibility: Can the slaughter in Chechnya credibly be equated to our current war against Osama bin Laden? After all, as the CFR’s Mr. Rahr claims, the Russian threat is "completely gone," and we’re both fighting against Islamic extremists, right? Or as Lord Robertson put it, we both face "very similar, if not exactly the same" threats.

The chess pieces were being positioned to produce American acceptance of this preposterous notion long before the suicide attacks of September 11, 2001. In December 1994, Boris Yeltsin ordered Russian troops, tanks, and air power into Chechnya to fight what he claimed were "terrorists" and "bandits." Soon the term "Islamic extremist" was also being applied to the Chechen opponents. For months the Russian army appeared pathetically inept, demoralized, barbaric, and incapable of subduing the Chechens. However, after grinding much of Chechnya under its tank tracks and killing 100,000 civilians, the Yeltsin regime negotiated an accord to withdraw Russian forces, while negotiations would continue toward a settlement of Chechnya’s status by the end of 2001.

The most penetrating (and what has also proven the most prophetic) analysis of the 1994-96 Russian-Chechnyan War was written in February 1995 as a memo from Soviet defector Anatoliy Golitsyn to CIA Acting Director William O. Studeman. Published in the 1995 edition of Golitsyn’s book The Perestroika Deception, the memo marshaled important evidence and observations supporting the contention that the Chechnyan War was being "deliberately staged largely for Western consumption by the Kremlin strategists in the pursuit of their objectives."

What hidden objectives could the Kremlin strategists advance by a controlled operation that showed the Russian military performing so poorly and the Russian military leaders quarreling amongst themselves? Mr. Golitsyn, himself a former elite KGB operative amongst the Kremlin strategists, listed many important objectives, including:

• The Russian military bungling was intended to "demonstrate that it can be discounted as a serious military adversary for the foreseeable future."

• This message was "intended to influence US Congressional debate on the subject of Russia’s military potential and the size of US forces required to maintain a balance with it."

• The message could "also be used as a pretext for deepening the partnership between the US and Russian armed forces by seeking American advice and help in ‘reforming,’ reorganizing and retraining the Russian army in order to enable it to serve a ‘democratic’ system."

• The Chechnyan events also "enabled the Russians to play especially on European fears of destabilization in Russia" and "injected a further boost to the European desire for partnership with the ‘democratic forces’ in Russia."

• This partnership would lead to "entry into European institutions" and then "East European and eventually Russian involvement in NATO."

As usual, Mr. Golitsyn’s cogent analysis has proven prescient as well; all of the above objectives, and others he mentioned, have been advanced on the Russian chessboard — to a frightful degree. And, as usual, Golitsyn’s warnings and analyses have been ignored and supressed by the CFR insiders dominating U.S. policy-making positions, Establishment think tanks, and the press. (See the sidebar.)

Russia’s New Front Man

Mr. Golitsyn suggested that the Chechnyan "crisis" might be "a possible planned prelude to a change of government," replacing the spent Yeltsin team with a new set of rotating faces. "Since an outright military or nationalist government [in Russia] might prejudice the flow of Western aid and the continued ‘cooperation’ with the West which furthers the strategists’ interests," he said, it is likely that the Kremlin strategists wielding the real power behind the scenes would replace Yeltsin with a team comprised of a tough new president and a "reformist" prime minister. "The President would be presented as a guarantee of Russian stability while the Prime Minister’s task would be to ensure the continued flow of Western aid and the continuation of cooperative operations."

Enter Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, the Russian "hero" of the Chechnyan pogrom. President Putin, the current player sitting in the Kremlin’s big chair, may seem in charge of moving the Russian pieces around the board, says Christopher Story, but he is merely the current front man for the covert Communist leadership collective that has continued to rule Russia since the Soviet Union’s supposed collapse. Mr. Story is perhaps the world’s leading proponent of Golitsyn’s thesis that the "Soviet collapse" was a controlled deception, planned many years in advance, for long-range strategic purposes.

Mr. Story, whose publications have closely tracked developments in Chechnya as well as the rise of Putin’s star, derides the government and media experts for falling all over themselves to come up with explanations for Putin’s meteoric rise. "Vladimir Putin has been a lifelong Communist and asset of Soviet intelligence," first of the KGB, and then of the GRU, Soviet military intelligence, he told The New American. "And the Chechnyan ‘crisis’ that raised him to the national and world stages has been completely an operation of the successor Russian intelligence services. If you follow the Russian-Chechnyan events and Putin’s career it’s very clear that he was hand-picked by the Kremlin strategists for his current role."

Shooting Putin to prominence was a spectacular string of 1999 apartment bombings in Moscow and other Russian cities that left hundreds dead. Yeltsin had appointed Putin prime minister, after serving a stint as head of the FSB, the current acronym for the KGB. Putin then strode on the scene vowing to bring the terrorists to justice. He quickly identified the perpetrators as Islamic extremists from Chechnya and soon launched a new massive invasion reducing Grozny to ashes and corpses. Heralded by the KGB/FSB-directed government organs and media as the strong man who had redeemed Russia’s honor from the ignominy of the 1994-1996 Chechnyan War and ended the terror bombings, Putin was elected "president" in March 2000.

USA Today reported on March 27, 2000 that Putin’s win "capped an incredible rise to power by a man who had never before stood for election." The Los Angeles Times reported that prior to his victory over the Chechens, "few thought the mousy, soft-spoken former spy could convince a majority of voters to elect him president."

Christopher Story has pointed out that Putin was able to solve the terrorist bombings "because they were very simply provocations perpetrated by covert Soviet intelligence operatives to provide Moscow with a pretext for an official re-entry into Chechnya. I say ‘official’ because Russia never really relinquished control when it supposedly left in 1996." Other analysts, investigators, and reporters around the world have reached some of the same conclusions. Many major mainstream media organs have acknowledged that the Putin regime has produced no evidence substantiating that Chechens were behind the Moscow bombings. Moreover, it has been fairly widely reported that strong evidence indicates that the FSB actually perpetrated the bombings. Many news groups have reported that after the fourth major bombing in September 1999, local police foiled a fifth bombing when they arrested terrorists planting explosives in another apartment complex. The terrorists turned out to be FSB agents.

According to Soviet Analyst, the Russians did not merely seize an opportunity (the 9-11 attacks) that happened to coincide with their long-range objectives; Putin and associates actually planned and carried out the terrorist deed using assets connected to bin Laden in Chechnya. The publication, which, like Anatoliy Golitsyn, can boast an uncanny accuracy on major Russian developments unmatched by the media-anointed Russian experts, has pointed out a number of important facts that support this theory. Among them:

• Land-locked Chechnya has long been one of the most completely controlled areas of the former Soviet Union, surrounded by Russia and Georgia, run by the faithful Communist Edward Shevardnadze. It is thus one of the safest venues to carry out a false Islamic revolt.

• The huge Soviet strategic military base and air base at Mozdok near Ingushetia has been using Chechnya as a "live warfare" laboratory and training ground, preparing for further strategic warfare in the region.

• The Chechen opposition has been completely controlled and compromised with false leadership, notably, with the likes of Djokhar Dudayev, a former Soviet air force general, accepted by Moscow as the representative voice of Chechen independence.

• The Russian armed forces and security services repeatedly released their controlled Chechen opposition, or allowed them to escape, to carry out repeated provocations.

• During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, an estimated 50,000 young Afghan males were removed from Afghanistan and transferred to terrorist training camps in Chechnya, Tajikistan, and elsewhere — to be filtered back in subsequent years as fighters in the ranks of the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and the Northern Alliance.

• Utilizing its client regimes in Iran, Sudan, Iraq, and elsewhere in the Middle East, Russia has supported the "Islamic" terror network while making it appear that it is itself under assault from "Muslim extremists."

As usual, says Christopher Story, the Communist strategists in Moscow have used the "principle of reversal," lying audaciously about the true situation in Chechnya. "Putin’s claims that Russia is under attack from bin Laden’s forces, just like the U.S., is a complete reversal of the truth," he says. In reality, he notes, "the evidence is far more persuasive that his al-Qaeda contacts in Chechnya and neighboring areas have been used to coordinate provocations that will provide the image of a common enemy." If this analysis is correct, and it appears to be, then the United States and the West have embraced as allies in the war on terrorism the engineers and perpetrators of the global terror offensive.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Predictions of an Ex-KGB Agent by William F. Jasper

Soviet defector Anatoliy Golitsyn predicted the rise of a false Soviet reformer like Gorbachev, the removal of the Berlin Wall, the unification of Germany, and the restructuring of NATO.

In 1961, in a dramatic escape under cover of a blinding snow storm, a major in the Soviet KGB defected to the United States. He was no ordinary KGB agent; he was an elite officer working within the "inner KGB" — a super-secret strategic planning department that plotted long-term Soviet strategy against the West. He is probably the most important Soviet defector ever to have reached the West. His name is Anatoliy Golitsyn.

Golitsyn warned that KGB moles had penetrated the CIA and virtually all other Western intelligence services and that many defectors were actually double agents feeding strategic disinformation to the West. For more than four decades, Golitsyn has been providing methodical analysis of developments in the Soviet Union and of Russian initiatives and operations throughout the world that has proven uniquely accurate. He has been explaining patiently that the Communist strategists who ran the Soviet Union continue to run Russia today. Following Leninist strategic principles, they are engaged in a deadly long-term war against the West. Foremost among their objectives is to convince Western leaders that Soviet Communism has collapsed and represents no further threat to the world.

Golitsyn’s amazingly prophetic book, New Lies for Old, was published in 1984. His main predictions included details of the forthcoming false liberalization of the whole of Eastern Europe, followed by similar developments in the Soviet Union. He predicted the rise of a false Soviet reformer like Gorbachev, the removal of the Berlin Wall, the unification of Germany, and the restructuring (if not abolition) of NATO. He even went so far as to specify that a "Break with the Past" process would start in East Germany, with the opening of its borders — as it turned out, to neighboring Communist countries. That was very remarkable: Golitsyn knew that the process would start in East Germany, and it did.

Author Mark Riebling, in his important 1994 book entitled Wedge: The Secret War between the FBI and CIA, conducted a careful analysis of Golitsyn’s predictions in New Lies for Old. He found that out of a total of 148 predictions, 139 had been verified by 1993 — "an accuracy rating of 94%." No other Soviet expert even comes close. Golitsyn’s 1995 book, The Perestroika Deception, continuing in the same tradition, offers unparalleled information and insight. Our leaders continue ignoring his proven wisdom to our own great peril.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: aazotfromheretozot; abuseofpower; addled; afacthurtsaliberal; ally; appeasers; ayazotola; azot; azotforkitty; azotforkittykitty; azotfortrolls; azotter; backward; banal; barnyard; barren; batty; besotted; beyondhelp; birchers; birdbrained; bizarre; blamevictims; blindto; bonkers; boorish; brainless; canspiracy; cantspellconspiracy; caucasus; caucasuslist; centralasia; chechen; chechensupporters; chechnya; commiezot; communism; communist; conspiracy; counterfactual; cracked; crackers; crackpot; crank; crazed; crazy; cretinous; crock; cuckoo; daffy; daft; deceitful; deceptive; delusive; demented; dense; derailed; deranged; deviant; dim; dimwitted; dingaling; dissembling; distorted; doltish; dull; dumb; dumbeddown; erroneous; evil; facts; factshurt; fallacious; false; fascism; fatheaded; featherbrained; feebleminded; fictitious; flake; freak; frenzied; fruitcake; fsb; garbage; garbageinandout; geopolitics; globaljihad; gone; goof; green; guttertripe; halfbaked; halfcocked; halfwitted; harebrain; herekittykitty; hollow; idiots; illiterate; imbecilic; imperceptive; imprecise; inaccurate; inane; inattentive; inbred; inconstant; incorrect; ineffective; inexact; iran; iraq; islam; islamoapologists; islamocommie; islamofascist; islamofascists; israel; jbs; johnbirchsociety; kerry; kgb; kitty; kook; lamebrain; lefties; liars; liberals; loon; loony; lowbrainvoltage; lowbred; lunatic; lying; mad; maniacal; massacre; medicationhelps; mental; meretricious; mindless; miscreant; misinformed; misleading; missingbrains; mistaken; moonstruck; moronic; muhammadan; neanderthal; neurotic; ninny; notbright; notsharpknife; numskulled; nut; nutcase; nutjobs; oblivious; obtuse; off; oneworldgovenment; paranoid; perfidious; pitiful; planetofapes; poland; prehistoric; preposterous; prevaricating; primitive; publicschoolproducts; putin; raving; recreant; russia; sadlyunintelligent; sappy; scatterbrain; screwball; screwy; senseless; shallow; sham; sickos; simpleminded; simplistic; slowwitted; sluggish; sovietunion; specious; spurious; stolid; struwwelpeterwashere; stupid; taliban; terrorism; terroristapologists; thick; throwbacks; torpid; trailerparkeducation; troll; truthhurts; unaware; uncivilized; uncouth; uncultivated; uncultured; uneducated; unenlightened; unglued; unhinged; uninformed; unintellectual; unknowledgeable; unlearned; unlettered; unpolished; unsettled; unsophisticated; unsound; untaught; untrained; untrue; untrustworthy; untruthful; unzipped; vicious; vulgar; wastedmind; whacko; williamjasper; witless; wrong; zapped; zot; zotforgreatjustice; zotforkitty; zotful; zotmeister; zotola; zotrichenvironment; zotsrus; zotster; zottatola; zotted; zottorama
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To: MarMema

=== They are hardline and controlling, but they are making excellent choices, imo

You probably have a rude awakening to come though, honestly, I too find breathtaking the decisiveness and elegance with which they keep to leninist objectives and deploy leninist strategies.


121 posted on 09/22/2004 9:29:41 AM PDT by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: MarMema

=== as a look at his economic policies and support of Christianity (including a return to prayer in public schools and work toward eliminating abortion) easily reveals.



By your logic, neither Lenin or Stalin were 100% communist.


122 posted on 09/22/2004 9:30:50 AM PDT by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: MarMema

The push to reduce abortion in Russia (just like the state-sanctioned and ballyhooed return to Christianity courtesy of corporate sponsors and Alexei's careful maintaining of strictures against public practice of any but the Orthodox faith), is simply a survival tactic no different than Stalin's invocation of God for the duration of the war.

I noticed the anti-abortion placards on the Metro in Moscow. (Very effective imagery, actually.) But I also noticed, in long talks with a woman of St. Petersburg, that the slew of state-sanctioned privileges accorded women in an effort to encourage them to reproduce has not made the slightest dent in the 6:1 ratio of abortions to births in the former Soviet Union.

Appearances can be deceiving, MarMema. Particularly when dealing with those whose speciality is deception strategy. I do understand where you're coming from but I cannot caution you strongly enough to take what you see with a large dose of Pilgrim salt.


123 posted on 09/22/2004 9:34:46 AM PDT by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Askel5

Askel5........*************

124 posted on 09/22/2004 9:57:27 AM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Askel5
with which they keep to leninist objectives and deploy leninist strategies.

I appreciate your respectful tone, btw. But this is simply labeling with no support. So put out the proof or don't label. There are plenty of labels available for, let's say, the John Birch Society, for one example. However I am not posting in that manner, am I?

125 posted on 09/22/2004 10:25:18 AM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: Askel5

To: MarMema
=== as a look at his economic policies and support of Christianity (including a return to prayer in public schools and work toward eliminating abortion) easily reveals.



By your logic, neither Lenin or Stalin were 100% communist.




Excellent point aske15. I will be posting on the very point you make tonight when I get off work. It's nice to read someone who understands "The Final Phase." Don't let some of these numbskulls get you down. It's ok to be like an Isaiah crying out in the desert! Once Russia decides to drop all pretenses of democratism and decisively launch what Golitsyn calls THE FINAL PHASE, there will no longer be any need to warn others about what is coming. The question is, can we shake enough people out of their slumber before it's too late? Given some of the responses from those who ostensibly call themselve conservatives, I'm beginning to wonder. In the end, it is all in God's hands, but that does not negate our duty to warn our fellow citizens of Soviet strategic deception (and its consequences!).


126 posted on 09/22/2004 10:34:01 AM PDT by GIJoel
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That's ridiculous. Putin has every right to do take the offense on terrorists, and as an ally, we should back him.


127 posted on 09/22/2004 10:41:20 AM PDT by Legion04
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To: MarMema

To ALL:

For more info. on how the Russians (read: Soviets) use terrorism to further their unrelenting drive towards world government, check out "Terrorists in Muslim Disguise" and "We Are The Next Target" threads below.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1220747/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1220737/posts


128 posted on 09/22/2004 10:48:40 AM PDT by GIJoel
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To: GIJoel
But since I had the thought, it might not be a bad idea to just share, after all.

John Birch Society on President Bush

"Using the pretext of responding to terrorist threats, President Bush proposed changes that, in reality, have long been planned to consolidate police-state powers at the federal level."

And plenty more paranoia where this came from. It is not only Putin that is responding to terrorism with an attempt to takeover, but Bush as well.

That should settle this issue for most freepers.

There is no place here on FR for this kind of distorted and irrational thinking.

129 posted on 09/22/2004 10:57:47 AM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: Lancelot Jones
Gog-Magog aligns with the enemy of Israel, Ezekiel is coming to pass.

I am quite aware of the prophecy in Ezk. 38 & 39. Spent a lot of time in the last 50 years or so in study and prayer about these events.

I think finally in the last couple of years I have a pretty good understanding of what is going to take place. Yes it is the next major prophetic event on God"s calender.

Is the stage being set. I think the answer is yes. Is it a separate event from and does it precede the Great Tribulation, also known as the time of Jacob's Trouble. Yes I believe it does, maybe by a period of time by as much as 20 years.

However my "so what" was refering to Joe's Russia is supporting the Arabs and the PLO with arms and money so they must be the Real power that controls these terrorists.

I was just saying that lots of nations are helping these people even the ones that are being attacked by them. The nations of Russia, France, Germany ,the EU and the US have all tried to use these countries as chess pieces against one another.

They prop these demented leaders up and try to use them as political and economic surrogate armies against each other. They make the same mistake that I think people like Joe make in that they think they can control these people. They don't understand that these people have and have had one goal only since the seventh century and that is complete world domination.

Nobody but nobody,is in control of Islam. If the nations of the world will forget old rivalries and open their eyes they will see that the allies they are funding are advancing taking land and killing the people that are suppling them with weapons and money.

Joe is right about one thing and that is the Islamic terrorists are the same in where ever you find them just different fractions of the same army.

They have the same goals, the same teacher, the same playbook and the same tactics. Just different names.

130 posted on 09/22/2004 11:01:18 AM PDT by mississippi red-neck
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To: MarMema

Like I said, I'm not a Bircher, so I count vouch for every single thing they put out. But when it comes to Putin: Ally or Terrorist, I have thoroghly researched the Golitsyn angle, and can therefore vouch for what Golitsyn has to say on the subject.


131 posted on 09/22/2004 11:20:43 AM PDT by GIJoel
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To: Luis Gonzalez; A. Pole; Destro; MarMema; ninenot; Cronos
That is funny, I watched all that coverage and no where once did I see a single tank. Some light APCs with machine guns but that was it, or was it the phantom tanks? I would seriously believe of the international media circus that was already there, at least one report would come out of this about tanks. But then you would not be able to appologize for the terrorists, would you?

In the case of the theater in Moscow, 177 out of the 178 hostages killed died from the gas used by the FSB.

You know for a fact that it was 129 deaths from 800+ hostages. You've even admitted to it and seen the articles before. So here you are blatently lieing in order to feed this poster's Russophobic paranoia, all the while excusing terrorists again. If nothing else, you are consistent. You even came on to a thread about Christian survivors, a child no less, to shift the blame away from Islam. Incredible. And you claim to stand with Bush? The man who stated flat out: this was done by evil terrorists and there is no excusing it. Yet you excuse it at every opportunity.

132 posted on 09/22/2004 11:22:08 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: jb6

I'm not Russo-phobic, I'm Soviet-phobic. I would rejoice if the Soviets were FINALLY defeated and Russia could once again assume its rightful place among free nations.


133 posted on 09/22/2004 11:25:31 AM PDT by GIJoel
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To: GIJoel

Maybe you missed it but they've had free elections, with US and international monitors for 14 years now.


134 posted on 09/22/2004 11:26:05 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: jb6

Is that why "former" Communists always win? Is that why the KGB/Secret police butchers have never been held to account for their crimes (genocide) against Russia, the Republics, and all humanity?


135 posted on 09/22/2004 11:29:39 AM PDT by GIJoel
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To: sinkspur
Look, Luis. If you want to believe the Russians intentionally killed all those kids, you just go right ahead and believe it. It's nutty as hell, but you're entitled to be nutty once in a while

No it is not silly or nutty, it is a program of intentional Islamic propaganda. I've read plenty of it, it is all the same, just substitute the islamic "victem group" and their "oppressors". This is the exact same kinds of fantasies that are written about the US in Arab press, about Israel, Serbia, Makedonia, Greek Cypriots, Serbska Republic, Indians, Phillopinos, S. Sudanese, Ethiopians, etc. It is intentional apologetics for exterminations of non Muslims. Just read what is writen about every Islamic riot in Nigeria that leaves hundreds killed.

136 posted on 09/22/2004 11:33:45 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: GIJoel

Here is a news flash, just like we discovered in Iraq, everyone who had any kind of office above lower management was a communist party member, that was the law. Ever wonder why the real communists keep dieing of old age, over there, not here, here they keep getting younger with more and more college age air heads. Is flat tax communist? Property rights? Trial by jury? Capitalism? Limited rights to bare arms? Multiple political parties?


137 posted on 09/22/2004 11:40:50 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: jb6

There's a disturbing trend here to try to sanctify the Chechens, of late. Putin has had a heavy hand, in some cases, but it's no heavier than Sharon and the way he handles the PA.


138 posted on 09/22/2004 11:42:26 AM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: GIJoel; MarMema; Jim Robinson; Admin Moderator; All

The timing [bashing Russians] is extremely suspicious in light of the islamonazi terror attack in Russia.

Are the islamic apologists coming out of the woodwork to take the focus off the New nazis where it belongs??


And this isn't the only post on FR of late trying to take the focus off Islam.

I've been getting skads of FReepemail about islamic apologists who have become abundant on FR of late. It is a growing problem with the potential to boil over like the last mass exodus did. Some apologists have even started flame wars critical of anyone who dares say anything about islamics.
THIS POST is somewhat MORE SUBTLE...merely as misdirection to remind us that "Russia had it coming to them."

I disagree with such propaganda, especially now.


I suggest we keep the focus on the problem, not the victims before more leave FR for more hospitable pastures in an effort to escape the islamic apologists who claim only to be "moderate republicans." [I doubt it]


139 posted on 09/22/2004 12:00:17 PM PDT by Indie (Ignorance of the truth is no excuse for stupidity.)
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To: jb6

Excerpt from Inside Story: World Report, 1995 (well after the Soviet Union supposedly "collapsed")





...To fool outsiders, the KGB has learned to disguise many of its activities through the "Russian mafia." Former KGB officer Golitsyn has revealed that the KGB's Economic Department and the Interior Ministry's OBKhS have penetrated-and even partly created-the black market underworld during the past 70 years.24 Taxation, for example, can now be portrayed as common crime. Timofeyev reports that "according to some reports, anywhere from 20 to 50 percent of produce is regularly stolen from district warehouses. Farmer's markets are under the control of criminal elements, who extract a commission from each seller and force sellers to keep their prices above a certain level."25

Even arms shipments to other Communist regimes are now disguised as business ventures under "mafia" control, giving Yeltsin his excuse for not being able to stop such activities. In 1990, for example, the Soviet business ANT was discovered to have been set up by dozens of KGB officers and Communist Party members, and was shipping tanks out of the country under the guise of selling tractors.26

In short, the Soviet Communist state remains intact, and is quietly accelerating its war against the West. As a part of these activities, the Soviet military is rapidly expanding and preparing for a hot war-a topic to be covered in future issues of World Report...


140 posted on 09/22/2004 12:04:30 PM PDT by GIJoel
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