TWO Russian Airliners Have Crashed.

[ConservativeMan55]

Per Foxnews Alert. Into the red sea.

60 people aboard the first one.

[Tunehead54]

The crashes took place just days before an election this Sunday in the separatist region of Chechnya intended to choose a successor to Akhmad Kadyrov, the Kremlin-allied provincial president who was assassinated in May.

---

Spain II? Except the Ruskies didn't help us in Iraq?

[Myrddin]

The posts from Fitzcarraldo contained "authentication" entries for multiple persons. The strings could be a pgp-like digital signature that could be validated against a public key. Good crypto works wonders in a public setting. The message timestamps suggest on ongoing activity. Some of the digit strings have the appearance of hexadecimal versions of ASCII characters (two bytes each). That would throw off search engines seeking a normal ASCII character strings.

[ridesthemiles]

Are you looking at a SCHEDULE of anticipated departure times or is that the ACTUAL time of departure.?

Based on other comments here about the efficiency of the Russian A/L system, there could be a vast difference between "scheduled" and actual lift off.

[timbuck2]

It is terrorism. Pure and simple. Two planes do not EVER crash at the same time in different places. Too much of a coincidence. Both took off from Moscow on the same day, both crashed in different places roughly at the same time? Yup, definitely terrorism. My prayers go to the Russians.

-T

[Fitzcarraldo]

Good point.

[texasmountainman]

That's probably right. I looked at the CNN website and their lead story is not this terrible loss of life in Russia, but instead it is the latest Abu Ghraib story! The MSM is obsessed with Abu Ghraib!

[Tunehead54]

Flight 1303, a Tu-134 operated by Volga-Avia-Express airline, arrived at Moscow at 9:20 p.m. from the southern city of Volgograd, known as Stalingrad during World War II, then loaded new passengers and took off again at 10:32 p.m., according to Russian news reports.

It disappeared at 10:56 p.m. with 34 passengers and eight crew members aboard. Authorities found wreckage from the plane in Tula.

Flight 1047, a Tu-154 operated by Sibir airline, left Moscow at 10:35 p.m. heading for Sochi, then vanished from Russian radar at 10:59 p.m., according to news reports. Interfax reported that 38 passengers and eight crew members were aboard, while the RIA-Novosti news agency put the number of passengers at 44.

---

Each plane lost EXACTLY 24 minutes into flight - timer? altimeter trigger? :-(

[Common Tator]

However, a plane flying at low altitude will use a lot more fuel than it would flying at a higher altitude. Hence it is likely to have MUCH less range than you would otherwise expect.

Flying below radar would attract a lot of notice. And it is not likely a plane having flown 600Km would have a lot of fuel left. Certainly not to a position where it could be used to attack the Olympics at Athens.

There is a significant amount of General aviation air traffic in Europe. I have a friend who has made a good living exporting everything from used 152s to King Airs to Europe and several nations that border the Mediterranean.

Radar picks them up easily from VFR minimum radar heights. To get below radar, this plane would have to fly very low by airliner ore even General aviation standards.

But the point is mostly mute. This baby is likely burning after exploding in mid air. It was not stolen to attack the Olympics. Both planes were likely taken down by on board explosives to puhish the Russians for some percieved misdeed.

[Tunehead54]

Wait! I'm catching up! ;-)

[ChadGore]

I think these departure times are not correct.

From an earlier post:
I just looked up the departure times on the Moscow's Airport Website:

Flight 1303: Departed 22:20

Flight 1047: Deaprted 21:25

That Washington Post is wrong.

[eabinga]

Looks like it is actual time. Flights that are delayed are showing their anticipated time in red.

[Imperialist]

I guess we'll see.

[Cindy]

Hi Smogger.
Please freepmail me the url for this post if you will.

Thank you.

[ChadGore]

 Departures

Home -> Flight Status -> Departures

Flight

To

Scheduled date and time

Estimated time

Status

BRP 143	Anadyr(Ugolny)	24 Aug 16:05	25 Aug 20:10		Delayed
POT 777	Lipetsk	24 Aug 20:00	20:00		Departed
H8 37	Khabarovsk (Novy)	24 Aug 20:05	20:05		Departed
7K 439	Tyumen(Roshchino)	24 Aug 20:05	20:05		Departed
7D 154	Donetsk	24 Aug 20:05	20:05		Departed
U9 371	Kazan(Osnovnoy)	24 Aug 20:15	20:15		Cancelled
*** 924	Nizhniy Novgorod(Strigino)	24 Aug 20:20	20:20		Departed
G5 508	Ulan-Ude(Mukhino)	24 Aug 20:20	21:15		Cancelled
6W 761	Saratov(Central)	24 Aug 20:30	20:30		Departed
9D 313	Perm(Bolshoye Savino)	24 Aug 20:40	20:40		Departed
UN 117	Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky(Yelizovo)	24 Aug 20:55	22:00		Departed
S7 778	Irkutsk	24 Aug 21:00	21:00		Departed
RMO 104	Rybinsk	24 Aug 21:05	21:05		Departed
BA 875	London(Heathrow)	24 Aug 21:05	21:05		Departed
S7 421	Murmansk	24 Aug 21:10	21:10		Departed
POT 723	Voronezh(Chertovitskoye)	24 Aug 21:10	21:10		Departed
S7 115	Ulan-Ude(Mukhino)	24 Aug 21:15	21:15		Departed
BGM 530	Bugulma	24 Aug 21:15	21:15		Departed
VN 524	Hanoi(Noibai)	24 Aug 21:20	21:20		Departed
X7 109	Chita(Kadala)	24 Aug 21:20	21:20		Departed
S7 1167	Volgograd (Gumrak)	24 Aug 21:20	21:20		Departed
NN 6109	Chita(Kadala)	24 Aug 21:20	21:20		Departed
E5 24	Samara(Kurumoch)	24 Aug 21:25	21:25		Departed
S7 1157	Rostov	24 Aug 21:25	21:25		Departed
S7 1047	Adler(Sochi)	24 Aug 21:25	21:25		Departed
S7 173	Novosibirsk(Tolmachevo)	24 Aug 21:30	21:30		Departed
POT 771	Voronezh(Chertovitskoye)	24 Aug 21:30	21:30		Departed
UN 507	Hong Kong(Chek Lap Kok International)	24 Aug 21:30	22:40		Departed
9U 176	Kishinev	24 Aug 21:30	21:30		Departed
R2 729	Orenburg(Central)	24 Aug 21:35	21:35		Departed
U9 365	Kazan(Osnovnoy)	24 Aug 21:35	21:45		Departed
S7 809	Novokuznetsk(Spichenkovo)	24 Aug 21:40	21:40		Departed
UN 103	Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk(Khomutovo)	24 Aug 21:45	21:45		Departed
FV 188	St Petersburg(Pulkovo)	24 Aug 21:45	21:55		Departed
V9 336	Ufa	24 Aug 21:50	22:05		Departed
U9 361	Nizhnekamsk	24 Aug 21:55	22:00		Departed
S7 2	Nizhniy Novgorod(Strigino)	24 Aug 21:55	21:55		Departed
S7 8	Chelyabinsk	24 Aug 22:00	22:00		Departed
U6 265	Ekaterinburg(Koltsovo)	24 Aug 22:00	22:00		Departed
E3 145	Norilsk(Alykel)	24 Aug 22:15	22:15		Departed
R2 9537	Kaliningrad(Khrabrovo)	24 Aug 22:15	22:15		Departed
KNI 991	Kaliningrad(Khrabrovo)	24 Aug 22:15	22:15		Departed
S7 171	Kemerovo	24 Aug 22:20	22:20		Departed
WLG 1303	Volgograd (Gumrak)	24 Aug 22:20	22:20		Departed
7B 147	Krasnoyarsk(Yemelyanovo)	24 Aug 22:30	22:30		Departed
U8 515	Yerevan(Zvartnots)	24 Aug 22:30	22:30		Departed
S7 6	Kazan(Osnovnoy)	24 Aug 22:35	22:35		Departed
7B 149	Krasnoyarsk(Yemelyanovo)	24 Aug 22:35	22:35		Departed
S7 167	Omsk(Central)	24 Aug 22:40	22:40		Departed
S7 2251	Norilsk(Alykel)	24 Aug 22:50	22:50		Departed
S7 217	Barnaul	24 Aug 22:50	22:50		Departed
UN 107	Novosibirsk(Tolmachevo)	24 Aug 23:00	23:00		Departed
N3 231	Omsk(Central)	24 Aug 23:00	23:00		Departed
UN 205	Almaty	24 Aug 23:00	23:00		Departed
UN 109	Ekaterinburg(Koltsovo)	24 Aug 23:10	23:10		Departed
S7 811	Tomsk(Bogashevo)	24 Aug 23:15	23:15		Departed
UN 215	Shymkent	24 Aug 23:20	23:20		Departed
S7 780	Irkutsk	24 Aug 23:25	23:25		Departed
UN 229	Karaganda(Sary-Arka)	24 Aug 23:35	23:35		Departed
UN 105	Nizhnevartovsk	24 Aug 23:45	23:45		Departed
J2 853	Baku()	24 Aug 23:50	23:50		Departed
7B 501	Norilsk(Alykel)	24 Aug 23:50	23:50		Departed
S7 177	Novosibirsk(Tolmachevo)	24 Aug 23:55	25 Aug 02:00		Departed
UN 233	Atyrau	25 Aug 00:20	00:20		Departed
G5 835	Norilsk(Alykel)	25 Aug 01:05	08:30		Delayed
S7 425	Nizhnevartovsk	25 Aug 01:10	01:10		Departed
9D 9550	Kurgan	25 Aug 01:35	01:35		Departed
G5 581	Kurgan	25 Aug 01:35	01:35		Departed
P2 455	Nojabrxsk	25 Aug 02:00	02:30		Departed
7J 627	Dushanbe	25 Aug 02:00	02:00		Departed
ZA 635	Tiksi	25 Aug 02:05	02:05		Cancelled
J7 9605	Tiksi	25 Aug 02:05	02:05		Departed
XO 403	Barcelona(EL PRAT)	25 Aug 02:30	02:50		Departed
S7 419	Novyj Urengoj	25 Aug 02:30	02:30		Departed
7J 633	Dushanbe	25 Aug 03:20	03:20		Departed
7J 634	Dushanbe	25 Aug 03:20	03:20		Departed
Flight	To	Scheduled date and time	Estimated time		Status

[Drammach]

BTTT

[peter the great]

Georgians are usually Christian, just like the Russians, Greeks, Serbians, Romanians and Ukranians. As for the Georgians there are a few in my Church in New Jersey.

[EternalHope]

I've seen the charts of Russian radar coverage (I used to work with them all the time). It would be easy for someone with access to these charts to plot a course over relatively sparsely populated territory and under radar coverage.

HOWEVER, that does not mean I think one of these planes has been turned into a flying bomb. My personal opinion is the same as yours: They are most likely smoldering wreckage, blown out of the air by a bomb in somebody's luggage.

I posted the info on radar avoidance simply because a lot of people on this thread were not aware of how easily it could be done.

[Moose4]

Flight 1047, a Tu-154 operated by Sibir airline, left Moscow at 10:35 p.m. heading for Sochi, then vanished from Russian radar at 10:59 p.m., according to news reports. Interfax reported that 38 passengers and eight crew members were aboard, while the RIA-Novosti news agency put the number of passengers at 44.

Four hours after the crash, rescue personnel were still searching for the remains of the aircraft about 82 miles from Rostov-on-Don. About 3 a.m. they found a fire they believed could indicate the scene of the crash.

That makes no sense. How the heck could the airplane take off from Moscow at 10:35 pm and disappear from radar (presumably explode or crash) at 10:59 pm, when the crash site was several hundred miles from Moscow? Either (a) there's some timezone weirdness there between Moscow and Rostov-on-Don--maybe Rostov is an hour behind Moscow and the times are both local--or (b) the plane dropped off radar 24 minutes after takeoff and kept flying for over an hour. There's no way it could've covered more than, what, 120 to 150 miles in the first 24 minutes, on climbout?

}:-)4

[Fitzcarraldo]

The list shows the expected departure time; click on the word departed for the flight and you get a new window that also shows actual time - 1047 for example actually departed at 21:35, 10 minutes later than expected.

[ChadGore]

This from Skynews:

MYSTERY OF PLANE CRASHES

President Vladimir Putin has ordered an investigation after two passenger planes went missing within minutes of each other over central Russia.

One airliner carrying 38 passengers and eight crew crashed 110 miles south of Moscow.

It was en route to Russia's southern city of Volgograd when it disappeared off radar screens close to the town of Tula.

Three minutes later air traffic controllers lost contact with the second plane carrying 44 passengers, as it was flying from Moscow to the Black Sea resort of Sochi.

Witnesses there say they saw an explosion before the plane crashed.

Authorities are not ruling out terrorist attacks against the aircraft.

Russia's UN Ambassador Andrey Denisov said: "Now we have to see if there's terrorism.

In Washington, a senior US State Department official said: "We are obviously concerned by the news. We're following developments closely and trying to determine the facts."