Karina: Am I Conservative, Rush?

RUSH: Karina in Davie, Florida, this is where the Miami Dolphins train. Hello, Karina and welcome to the program.

CALLER: Hi, Rush, thanks for taking my call. I'm a new listener. I just turned 24, I've been listening for maybe about six months, and before I started listening to you I thought I was a liberal. No questions about it. But after listening to you, I'm not real sure anymore. I still consider myself a liberal, but--

CALLER: -- I'm going to vote for Bush. So I need your help to finding, I guess, my political party.

RUSH: Okay, this is going to require some conversation. I'll be glad to tell you about this when we come back. I want to change my battery here. I hope I have a spare battery. Well, I always do, I always care a spare battery in the briefcase, so I'll switch batteries here in the break Karina. You just turned 24, you're a new listener, I want to find out first, it's important, how you found this show. We've been here 16 years.

RUSH: Let's go back now to Karina in Davie, Florida. All right, it's great to be able to talk to you, Karina, be able to hear you.

RUSH: So you're 24, you've been listening for about six months. How did you find the program?

CALLER: My boyfriend Tom. He started listening to your show, and I just figured let me start listening. He would come home from work and he'd start talking about your show, and I'd have no idea what he's talking about, so I started listening, and, you know, we go home, we could talk about the show and what's going on. And everything that, you know, we talk about what you said and stuff like that.

CALLER: When I was growing up I was taught that Republicans are for the rich and Democrats are for the poor, and I figured, well, I'm not rich, so I must be a Democrat. But then I have liberal ideas, like I believe in pro-choice.

RUSH: Now, there's got to be a reason for that. Obviously on some social issues, some cultural issues, you lean more to the left, but yet Kerry doesn't appeal to you. Why?

CALLER: I have a three-year-old daughter, and I just don't feel safe with him in the office. I think Bush, he's going to take charge, I feel safer with him in the White House. I think Kerry, something bad would happen, and I'm just thinking about my daughter.

RUSH: All right, now, it says here on the subject line that you called because -- I hope this is right -- you need help defining yourself politically?

CALLER: Well, because I hear your show, and you said that people who are liberals call themselves moderates. I'm pretty much confused. I don't know what I am. I have liberal ideas, but I also have conservative ideas. So, you know, which one am I?

RUSH: Well, we could go through some questions, and we could, you know, give you a little test here --

RUSH: -- and come out with an overall score. That's one way of doing it. There's an overarching definition here, and I went through it a little bit yesterday. Let me try it again. And this, to some people, it would be simplistic, but it would be a good starting point.

RUSH: Take the universe of the American people. We all want, for the most part, I mean there are some exceptions to this, we all want the same things in life. We want freedom; we want the chance for prosperity; we want to be the best we can be; we want as few people suffering as possible, economically; we want to have healthy children; we want to have crime-free streets; all these things, they're pretty common. Doesn't matter what race you are, doesn't matter what gender you are, doesn't matter what sexual orientation you are, these are the things we want. The arguments is how to achieve them.

Now, the American left, or liberals believe, that the individual, on balance, is not capable of providing all of those things him or herself, because American left believes that most people are not equipped to make the best judgments for themselves, they're not equipped to access the economy and do the best for themselves economically.

The American Conservative, the right, believes that freedom is the essence of life in America and that freedom allows everybody to seek whatever it is they want and need on their own terms and that they are far better equipped to get what they want and need than a central government distributing things to people based on what that government thinks people should want and should need.

RUSH: So where do you come down on that? I mean, do you want the government to be responsible for your income? Do you want the government to be responsible for your child's future? Do you want to have to depend, in essence, on somebody else to satisfy your wants and needs or would you rather satisfy those wants and needs yourself, with your family and so forth? How would you answer that?

CALLER: Well, see, that's a good question because I get help because I go to school, so I'm getting help from the government, but I'm not going to be depending on it. I only have maybe a year or more before I get my degree and then I'm not going to be getting the financial help anymore.

CALLER: So I get my tuition paid and I get, you know, my daughter's day care paid.

CALLER: So Tom tells me, he's my boyfriend, he tells me that liberals believe that the government has to help you, and then they become dependent on it.

RUSH: Well, he's right in this sense. See now, this is what I believe based on having seen it. These are big arguments that ensue from this, but I think whereas in the case of your Pell grant, your education and this sort of thing, I don't find anything wrong with assistance to people who are trying to improve themselves, who intend to pay back some of this assistance, and you're doing it for reasons that -- I mean you're doing it, you're going to school -- you're accessing an opportunity, you're not depending on somebody else to get through life, so you're actually depending on yourself here.

The problem with the American left is that when it comes to the so-called social safety net or social programs, their ultimate belief is -- and if you listen to John Edwards and Kerry talk about this -- you'll hear them talk about the two Americas. They look at America and they see soup lines, homeless people, they see nothing but suffering out there, and they want you and everybody else to believe that exists because too many people have gotten wealthy, and have stolen money from the whole aggregate amount of money that should otherwise go to people like you and others who aren't doing well. And so what they want to do is make you think that you're getting the shaft and you're being treated unfairly, and the way they're going to fix it is to take money from the people who have more than you do, because it's not right that they have more than you do, and redistribute it to all the rest, or the people who don't have as much. And this is supposed to make people like you feel good that the people doing better than you are going to be punished because they have more than you do, and this is called class envy, and what they try to do is make you feel happy, not when good things happen to you but when bad things happen to other people.

CALLER: Okay. Well, then the answer to your question would be no, I think the government should give you a helping hand but then you should be responsible for your own --

RUSH: All right, now, when you say that the government should give you a helping hand, I want you to keep in mind who the government is. Who do you think -- when you say the government should give you a helping hand -- who is that? Where does the government get its money?

RUSH: Right. So essentially, when you boil this all down, take the emotion out of this for just a second, essentially when people say, "Yeah, I think government should provide my health care or I think the government should take care of my education, the government should--" what you're really saying is that your fellow citizens should.

RUSH: Well, of course they're not going to say that, the liberals are not going to say that, but their policies do just that. And they do it in the basis of fairness and equality, and who could oppose fairness and equality, everybody is for fairness, right?

RUSH: What is fair? Nothing about life is fair. Everything that happens in life, some days are good, some days are bad. Everybody deals with things as they happen. And the left has been very successful in creating this notion that the government is an independent source of money and benevolently distributes it to people in need, but before they get that money they have to take it from somebody else.

Now, we Americans are compassionate people. This is the mitigating effect. We Americans are compassionate people. We were the prosperous nation of the earth, we are the most well-off people, there's nowhere on earth where life is as good as it is in this country despite what you hear various liberals like Kerry and Edwards say. So we don't want people to suffer. I don't want my fellow citizens to suffer and I don't want people to be in pain and I don't want people to not be treated for, you know, serious medical problems and this sort of thing, so the American people have agreed in their compassion that when there is a genuine need among people who are having trouble, they may be trying but they're not really at that point in their lives able to help themselves, we're more than willing to chip in and help.

The objective, though, is to provide the kind of help that teaches people to eventually learn to provide for themselves because that's where pride in one's self comes from, that's where the sense of achievement comes from, the sense of accomplishment. When you do it yourself. When you buy your own car instead of having somebody give it to you, you'll appreciate it much more, you'll care for it better, you'll feel a sense of achievement and accomplishment. This is what the American left doesn't want you to feel, in my opinion. They want you to stay -- not you personally -- they want people to stay dependent because that's where the American left derives its power, people needing them.

We conservatives define compassion this way: not by counting the number of people who get help and who get aid, but by counting the number of people who don't need it anymore. They've been helped in such a way that they are able now to go out and be self-sufficient and productive and contributing to society. You sound like the latter. You sound like somebody accessing a government program to get an education, and you intend to do this so that you can improve yourself and all that. Now, there may be people in this audience who still think that there ought not be Pell grants, people in all walks of life who think that [doing impression] "I didn't get any help going to school, I worked four jobs, why can't they?" There are those people that exist. The fact is the program's there and until it's taken away, you access it --

RUSH: In a sense, yeah. Yeah. Where some of this gets confused, let's go back to, you said that you're pro-choice and you are for gay marriage.

RUSH: Those are cultural issues. And it's a crying shame that abortion has become a political issue that has been identified as left or right. It has become a political issue because the Supreme Court made up a right in the Constitution that's in there in order to allow it to happen. That turned it political because the Constitution is a political document. And it's just unfortunate. What we hope is, is that there will be a never ending respect for the sanctity of life and that, you know, all life is precious, and you can argue about where it begins and all this sort of thing. People practically know that no matter what you do, no law is going to stop abortion. Legal or not, it's going to happen.

So the objective is not to point fingers in people's face and say, "You can't do that, you shouldn't do that." The objective, long term, is to change people's hearts and minds and eventually get to the point -- don't even get to where you need an abortion. Be serious about this, be serious about having a child and if you're not ready for one, don't. And certainly don't have a child because there's a government program out there to pay for it like AFDC. The American welfare system got so bloated at one point that it became profitable for unmarried women to have kids because the government, state and federal, would pay them to take care of them. This led to all kinds of dissolution of families in certain poor communities around the country because it obviated the need for a father. If the government is going to pay you to have a baby or a series of babies, what do you need to get married, what do you need a man around for? You don't. And this was also part of a devious plan, I think, to create power in government, create need in single women and so forth. These things are very hideous because to me they end up doing great damage to people. It's not good for the babies born that way, it's certainly not good for the mothers. But it's still not worth aborting them.

CALLER: So if I agree with pro-choice, the woman's right to choose, am I then agreeing with abortion? Because I already had a daughter, I could never see myself having an abortion, but I liked having the choice, it was my choice with what I wanted to do.

CALLER: If I say I'm for pro-choice, that a woman should decide, then am I saying yes, I'm okay with abortion?

RUSH: Yeah, because in the American political context today pro-choice just means pro-abortion. And I can illustrate it for you this way. This has happened. I have reported it, I have seen it. You can have an abortion clinic side by side with a place that tries to convince women not to have the abortion, but to bring them in, counsel them, have the baby and put it up for adoption. The abortion clinic people argue with that. The abortion clinic people try to keep women from going to these family planning places that will lead to adoption, because abortion has become a political issue, abortion is become a sacrament to feminism. Abortion is how they establish their independence and identity and that's why the Democratic Party supports it. So in the political context today yes, to answer your question, pro-choice simply means pro-abortion because there is a political objective furthered with each abortion. Now, it's interesting that you said you wouldn't do it, you liked having the choice, you wouldn't do it, but you think other people should. Now, the way I would answer that is, we all have a responsibility. You are a mother, right?

RUSH: So you want to set the best example for your child possible. You have to provide leadership because your child is young and malleable and doesn't know anything other than what you're going to teach them, as, is it a daughter or son?

RUSH: Little girl, as your little girl grows up. I assure you I'm imposing nothing on you, I just want you to think about it. If you have a personal view that abortion is not for you and you don't like it, then it's important, if it's that important for you to have that view, then it's okay to say that. Most people don't want the controversy of getting into arguments with people who disagree with them, so they say, "Well, I would never do it, but I will never stand in her way or anybody else's way of doing it." And, understandably so, you shouldn't. But at the same time, it's important that you not let your actual belief be watered down simply because of your desire to be tolerant and understanding with somebody else's. If your belief is worth holding, it's worth living. So, on balance here, I'm going to call you a rock-ribbed conservative.

RUSH: Rock, because you're leaning that way, and I can tell by the way you're reacting to this that you're open to it, and you get it.

RUSH: You don't feel like arguing with me about it, you haven't yet told me I'm full of it or wrong.

RUSH: I'm glad he did, too. It's been a sheer delight talking to you. You call back any time you have a question.

RUSH: In fact, Karina, hang on because I want to get your phone number. We're going to check in with you periodically. We're not going to wait for you to call, you may not get through. So we'll check with you periodically to see if you have any other questions, and we'll use you, because you're a perfect demographic, you're 24, you're trying to figure all this stuff out and understand it, we'll stay in touch with you, okay?

RUSH: Hey, Karina, I know you're still out there, what we're going to do, I forgot to do this because I was up against a time constraint here. Brett, call her back, we're going to make her a subscriber to the website, her boyfriend, and to the newsletter. I mean, what better way to reinforce her instincts than to do that. And Koko -- talking here to the webmaster -- I want to put this call on the free side of the website with a transcript, make an MP3 out of it for people to be able to download and spread the word.

Now, one could trash us for using a government program to give our mother the help she needs and argue that the VA shouldn't be shelling out money for surviving spouses, etc. And they might be legitimate arguments in the hypothetical sense.

You are right. But, I know that in my case we took a child in that was a ward of the court (she was a family member). We could have taken a monthly allowance from the state along with her. We chose not to take the money.

I'm as fiscally conservative and small government as they come, but I happen to think the Pell Grant is one of the few things the government does right. It is a good investment in that it actually helps people get an education, and an education helps them get a better job and be self-sufficient and contribute to society.

Many people, myself among them, could not have gone to college without the Pell Grant. The taxes I've paid since I graduated college have been far in excess of what they would have been without a college degree and it's far more than I ever received in grants.

You need to go listen to it again carefully, for what he said was; "that he doesn't mind it if they are going to school to better themselves, and will be paying it back." She is 24 years old, she is trying to straighten her life around for her and her child. And, believe me when she gets into the working world she will be paying it back.

You just made the case for the democratic party's vision of welfare. After all, why not provide money to poor single moms so that they can have healthcare, daycare, job training, and on and on and on .... on the hope that someday, they'll pay it back after they "improve" themselves

Gee, and I thought I had to work hard on my own to succeed, without government handouts.

You know what, too bad! Life isn't fair.

You can't be a conservative if you think the government ought to take money from hardworking americans and hand it out to those who are unwilling to put themselves through college. I worked between 2 & 3 jobs while going through school without any government handouts. I don't buy the argument that you couldn't have gone to college without Pell Grant? Did you consider joining the military? Did you consider working? Did you consider taking a year or two and saving up enough money to put yourself through college? Did you consider working while in college?

I don't accept your liberal democratic vision that government handouts paid for on the backs of hardworking americans are an acceptable governmental policy.

Gosh that "It's and investment" sounds an awful lot like that democrat slogan "Investing in America" which is a euphemism for BIG GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS

Run some business models and you'll see the difference. What's the return on investment? What's the next best use of those dollars?

With those Pell grant dollars, she'll use a little bit of taxpayer money now, but in the long run, she'll be a net contributor rather than a net user.

Likely because you realized you could raise the child without the allowance. Good for you for not taking what you didn't need. In addition, you probably freed yourself from a level of governemnt oversight and inspection on how the money would have been spent.

In my mother's case, she simply outspent the insurance settlement she received when my father passed away. Dad was always the one that told her not to spend so much and, without him, she spent til she had almost nothing.

She didn't even know Dad when he was a soldier in WWII. But she (actually, us children) are getting the benefits from the VA and not the one who "earned" it.

Our family (myself included) still has to pay some of what it costs to keep her in good care but there's no way we could give her what she needs without the benefit. It bothers me to some extent but it's a family decision and I've reconciled my conscience about it.

When my turn comes, I'm not going to want a dime from the government.

With those Pell grant dollars, she'll use a little bit of taxpayer money now, but in the long run, she'll be a net contributor rather than a net user.

So you really don't have a problem with confiscating money from hardworking citizens to hand it out to those unwilling to come up with their own money to better themselves.

Tell you what, if you would send me $20,000 I will use it to go to graduate school. Once I graduate I'm sure I can make more money, which I will use to pay you back with interest.

Deal?

How about instead, I forcibly take your money from you via taxation and use it for the same purpose. Aren't you better off?

With those Pell grant dollars, she'll use a little bit of taxpayer money now, but in the long run, she'll be a net contributor rather than a net user.

And yet the reality of the situation is that she'll likely get impregnated by her boyfriend who won't support her. In which case she'll either abort the kid (she's pro-abortion), or she'll rely on government handouts to raise not one, but two kids, and her pell grant will have gone to waste.

Now, if she had to work for herself to go to college, perhaps the story will be different.

I'm continually amazed that people don't recognize what 40 years of liberal welfare programs have gotten us.

Did you consider joining the military?

Yeah, but that would have cost the taxpayers even more than a Pell Grant.

Did you consider working? Did you consider working while in college?

I did work, thanks.

Did you consider taking a year or two and saving up enough money to put yourself through college?

Well, let's see, I could work a year, go to school a year, work a year, go to school a year... Or I could finish in four years and be on my way to being a productive self-sufficient citizen.

I don't accept your liberal democratic vision [blah, blah, blah slander] that government handouts paid for on the backs of hardworking americans are an acceptable governmental policy.

That's fine. You have the right to be wrong.

Did you consider joining the military?

Yeah, but that would have cost the taxpayers even more than a Pell Grant.

But you would have earned that money by serving your country, instead you seem to think you ought to just be given a check by the government, paid for by taxes confiscated by the government.

Ask yourself, would it have been right for you to go around your town and steal $20 from each citizen to pay for your education? If your answer is no, then why do you think it is right for the government to take that money on your behalf?

No, I am sorry you took it that way, it wasn't meant that way. I personally went to school on my own money and worked hard for it. But, my daughter got herself in a mess and ended up needing help, her husband walked out on her and left her with 4 children. She grew up fast, but also when she finally went to work and found her check was so darn small she realized that she better get a better education and get out of the mess she was in and she has. And, she has paid it all back. I am not for not helping someone at one time or another if they will get out of the trap they are in. That shows growing up, maybe not the best way to grow up but she did and is doing a heck of a job raising her children and working and having a home. I'm sorry you feel that I am looking like a socialist, believe me, you couldn't be more wrong. You must have been lucky enough to not have 4 little responsibilities, and no her husband did not pay child support and the government didn't go after him for a long time, and when they finally did, he only had to pay a small percentage of his pay. Her husband wasn't responsible for his actions, and that is how the government gets into her life, not because she wanted it. She is now a hard working conservative single mom.

And yet the reality of the situation is that she'll likely get impregnated by her boyfriend who won't support her.

That's a bit judgmental for something that's based on pure unwarranted speculation. I guess it's people like who who leftists are referring to when they call Republicans mean and hateful.

Here's my beef. Before Johnson folks relied on themselves and families to get out of their personal situations. Now they rely on the government, and the same logic being used to justify pell grants can be used to justify a whole host of liberal social programs. the end result is the welfare state, and we've seen how disasterous 40 years of welfare programs have been. What we need is a return to self reliance.

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