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Massive Black Hole Stumps Researchers
Space.com ^ | June 28, 2004 | Tariq Malik

Posted on 06/28/2004 7:03:25 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou

A team of astronomers have found a colossal black hole so ancient, they're not sure how it had enough time to grow to its current size, about 10 billion times the mass of the Sun.

Sitting at the heart of a distant galaxy, the black hole appears to be about 12.7 billion years old, which means it formed just one billion years after the universe began and is one of the oldest supermassive black holes ever known.

The black hole, researchers said, is big enough to hold 1,000 of our own Solar Systems and weighs about as much as all the stars in the Milky Way.

"The universe was awfully young at the time this was formed," said astronomer Roger Romani, a Stanford University associate professor whose team found the object. "It's a bit of a challenge to understand how this black hole got enough mass to reach its size."

Romani told SPACE.com that the black hole is unique because it dates back to just after a period researchers call the 'Dark Ages,' a time when the universe cooled down after the initial Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago. That cooling period lasted about one billion years, when the first black holes, stars and galaxies began to appear, he added. The research appeared June 10 on the online version of Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Invisible to the naked eye, black holes can only be detected by the radiation they spew and their gravitational influence on their stellar neighbors. Astronomers generally agree that black holes come in at least two types, stellar and supermassive. Stellar black holes form from collapsed, massive stars a few times the mass of the Sun, while their supermassive counterparts can reach billions of solar masses.

A supermassive black hole a few million times the mass of the Sun is thought to sit at the center of our own Milky Way galaxy, and some of the largest supermassives seen date have reached up to two billion solar masses, researchers said.

Weighing a black hole heavyweight

Determining a precise mass for the black hole found by Romani's team, dubbed Q0906+6930, is a bit tricky though since it's so far away.

"Very massive black holes like this are so rare, that one should really be a little suspicious at first," Romani said.

The black hole, called a blazar because it spews jets of radiation in roughly the direction of Earth, sits at the center of a galaxy about 12.7 billion light-years away in the constellation Ursa Major. One light-year is the distance light travels in one year, is about six trillion miles (10 trillion kilometers).

Because the blazar is so distant, there are no nearby neighbors to scan for potential gravitational effects, and much of its radiation is absorbed by gas and dust lying between it and the Earth, Romani said.

"It really is too far away to do a direct orbital measurement to help determine its mass," Romani said, adding that he and his colleagues had to estimate the mass based on a quantitative method that includes measuring particle velocity and the Doppler shift of its infrared emission lines. "The best thing to do is study it in a broader region of the spectrum, to get more emission lines."

Next year, researchers plan to scan the blazar's X-ray emissions with the Very Large Baseline Array and take other measurements to pin down a more accurate mass for the object, and eventual gamma-ray studies could refine that number even more.

A good catch

The blazar found by Romani and his colleagues is one of about 200 they have catalogued to date in preparation for the Gamma Ray Large Area Space Telescope (GLAST) planned for launch in 2007. The researchers are using a collection of optical, gamma-ray and radio observations for their study.

Since that mission is aimed at studying high-energy radiation sources like pulsars and spinning neutrons stars and others, researchers wanted to be able to filter out blazar interference before GLAST begins operations. But the discovery of blazar Q0906+6930, has yielded a few added scientific benefits.

"It suggests the blazar phenomena turned on much earlier than we thought," Romani said of the black hole. "So it really pushes on the formation scenarios we have for black holes."

Close study of the blazar's jet could also give astronomers a good picture of all the matter lying between Earth and the massive black hole since it has to pass through such material to reach astronomers' telescopes.

"So that's a way of using this weird, anomalous object to help our understanding of the universe," Romani said, adding that he and his colleagues plan to continue their blazar hunt until GLAST begins. "But I would be very surprised if there were a large number of these objects."



TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: ancient; bigbang; blackhole; blazar; colossalcrash; mysterymonday; space; steadystate; stringtheory
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To: PatrickHenry; RadioAstronomer; Physicist; ThinkPlease; edwin hubble; purple haze

supermassive ping


41 posted on 06/28/2004 8:28:16 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: PeaceBeWithYou
A team of astronomers have found a colossal black hole so ancient, they're not sure how it had enough time to grow to its current size,...

It had enough time because it's ancient. Mystery solved. Next thread.

42 posted on 06/28/2004 8:29:51 PM PDT by Consort
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To: PeaceBeWithYou

It's almost as big as the super massive black hole that is our federal government.


43 posted on 06/28/2004 8:31:39 PM PDT by RockyMtnMan
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To: Consort
It had enough time because it's ancient

LOL. Very well said.

44 posted on 06/28/2004 8:32:23 PM PDT by Friend of thunder (No sane person wants war, but oppressors want oppression.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Ping!


45 posted on 06/28/2004 8:32:37 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.)
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To: NRA2BFree

Nice tag line!


46 posted on 06/28/2004 8:34:27 PM PDT by Friend of thunder (No sane person wants war, but oppressors want oppression.)
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To: vger
Is it bigger than mmoore?

..its' only slightly bigger...esp. his Ego. :P

47 posted on 06/28/2004 8:35:48 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :)
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To: Light Speed

Bump for a read tomorrow


48 posted on 06/28/2004 8:44:50 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: PeaceBeWithYou

Any chance we could force Michael Moore into a space ship and aim him in that direction?


49 posted on 06/28/2004 8:47:01 PM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand")
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To: Light Speed
If you allow for the electrical structure of matter, the almost 2,000 fold difference in mass of the electron and proton will ensure that in a strong gravitational field charge separation will operate to prevent compression. Charge separation prevents the collapse of stars.

Here's where that argument fails. Suppose I have a bunch of protons and electrons, and I compress them. The problem is that, while the entire mass may be electrically neutral, the protons (all having the same charge) aren't comfortable sitting right next to each other. It takes energy to get them to do that. Now, a proton can combine with an electron to form a neutron, and protons and neutrons are very comfortable sitting right next to each other. But to form a neutron requires energy, too.

Here's the trick: as you put more and more protons closer and closer together, it takes more and more energy to add each successive one. At SOME point, it requires less energy to form a neutron out of an electron and a proton, than it does to cram one more proton into the bunch. Since nature takes the path of least resistance, that is what happens. In fact, when that condition is reached (and with an assist from gravitational collapse), it becomes energetically favorable for all of the protons to convert into neutrons, so that is what they do, catastrophically, in a type 1A supernova.

Ah, but you say: the neutron is itself composed of charged particles. What about the charge separation inside the neutron? The experimental reality is that the electric dipole moment of the neutron is exquisitely close to zero. In fact, nobody has ever been able to measure an electric dipole moment for the neutron that is not consistent with zero.

[Geek alert: This is also expected for deep theoretical reasons. A non-zero electric dipole moment for the neutron would be a direct violation of CP invariance. The Standard Model of Particle Physics predicts this value to be exactly zero, but many extensions to the Standard Model predict a tiny non-zero value. Several theories have been killed by failing this prediction.]

50 posted on 06/28/2004 8:51:46 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: PeaceBeWithYou
Consider all the worlds Thy hands have made. I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder.Thy power throughout the universe displayed."

You may see some of the stars, but you won't ever see a black hole.

51 posted on 06/28/2004 8:59:08 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Friend of thunder
Nice tag line!

Thanks! :-)

52 posted on 06/28/2004 9:03:10 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.)
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To: PeaceBeWithYou

The effect for which there is no cause.....


53 posted on 06/28/2004 9:03:48 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: kingofrock

LOL


54 posted on 06/28/2004 9:04:41 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: ShadowAce
OK. That explanation makes some sense to me. I am not an astronomer or scientist by any stretch of the imagination. It makes more sense when I realize that the energy being emitted does not come from the black hole per se, but from around it.

Wow, our federal government is designed like a black hole.
55 posted on 06/28/2004 9:07:47 PM PDT by microgood
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To: kingofrock

LOL you owe me a new keyboard


56 posted on 06/28/2004 9:07:55 PM PDT by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
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To: Physicist

"A non-zero electric dipole moment for the neutron would be a direct violation of CP invariance"

Oh . . boy do I feel dumb!


57 posted on 06/28/2004 9:10:38 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Ciexyz

It would be interesting to see which would eat which first.


58 posted on 06/28/2004 9:14:02 PM PDT by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
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To: vger

Not by much, although Moore may be slightly more dense.


59 posted on 06/28/2004 9:22:13 PM PDT by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: Friend of thunder
The simplest explanation of Hawking radiation is simply that the border of the black hole is not fixed at the quantum level, but is constantly wiggling/vibrating. A particle can suddenly find itself outside the black hole, not because it somehow escaped, but rather because the border moved.

Second attempt, in the quantum world particles can and do go from one state to another without going through what is in between (quantum effect in a tunneling diode). If there is a non-zero quantum function at a point in space, then a particle can appear there (and as Hawking notes empty space cannot have a field fixed at zero).

The source for the first paragraph was a popular science magazine and for the second my memory of long ago physics and electronics courses, so both may be completely wrong or greatly oversimplified.

60 posted on 06/28/2004 9:23:37 PM PDT by ExpandNATO
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