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Cosmologists claim Universe has been forming and reforming for eternity
Nature Magazine ^ | 26 April 2002 | Tom Clarke

Posted on 03/28/2004 4:53:18 AM PST by PatrickHenry

The Universe was not born in one Big Bang, it has been going through cycles of creation and annihilation for eternity, according to a controversial new mathematical model1.

It's a compelling claim. The new cyclic model removes a major stumbling block common to existing theories of the Universe - namely, that physics can't explain what came before the Big Bang.

Because the model relies on new mathematics, it is having some teething problems, admit its proposers. Indeed, most cosmologists are treating the hypothesis with interested scepticism. Some are vociferously critical.

Criticism is to be expected, concedes Neil Turok of Cambridge University, UK, who developed the cyclic model with cosmologist Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University in New Jersey. "We're taking on some very fundamental issues here," says Turok.

Strings attached

Steinhardt and Turok draw on the emerging science of string theory. This mathematical idea uses up to ten dimensions - instead of the usual four - to explain the weird behaviour of tiny things in physics called fundamental particles.

When applied to big things like cosmology, string theory invokes weird mathematical entities called membranes - branes for short. In the cyclic model there are two branes at any one time, one containing our Universe, the other a parallel Universe that is the mirror image of our own.

The researchers suggest that these branes regularly collide, as they did 15 billion years ago, resulting in the massive release of energy previously ascribed to the Big Bang. And just like the Big Bang, "this collision made all the radiation and matter that fills the Universe," says Turok.

The branes are then flung apart. The Universes on each brane expand outwards over billions of years, as ours is doing today.

According to the model, a fifth dimension that we can't see or travel through bridges the branes. As each Universe expands, its matter and energy spreads ever thinner and is diluted. When the spring-like fifth dimension overcomes this expansion energy it heaves the branes back together, they collide, and the whole process repeats. "It's just like reproduction in biology," says Turok.

As well as solving the problem of what came before the Big Bang, the cyclic model could explain numerous other cosmological conundrums, such as dark energy. Our Universe should contain more energy than can be measured, and there are no good theories to explain why. Turok and Steinhardt's model suggests that this is because energy, in the form of gravity, leaks across the fifth dimension between our Universe and its complementary braneworld.

No braner?

Steinhardt and Turok's idea sounds appealing, but fellow astrophysicists are not greeting it with open arms. "The community is very, very sceptical," says David Lyth, a cosmologist at the University of Lancaster, UK.

Others are more scathing. "It's a very bad idea popular only among journalists," says one of the chief critics of the cyclic model, Andrei Linde of Stanford University, California. "It's an extremely complicated theory and simply does not work," adds Linde, the originator of a rival model of the Universe.

String theory is still in its infancy, and applying it to cosmology stretches it to its limits, explains Cambridge University cosmologist George Efstathiou. "Its connection to fundamental physics is really rather weak," he says, so until string theory matures, models that use it will be flawed and misunderstood. But on the whole, he says, "the cyclic model is a cute idea and some elements of it may survive."

Steinhardt and Turok agree that problems with the mathematics could be their undoing. "There may be disasters waiting for us at higher levels of calculation," says Turok. But, if it does add up, their theory overturns many ideas about the Universe, they say - like time and space being created in a Big Bang.

Footnote 1: Steinhardt, P. J. & Turok, N. A. Cyclic model of the Universe.Science, published online April 25 (2002). |Link to Science online.|


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bigbang; cosmology; crevolist; physics; science; universe
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To: PatrickHenry
Theme for an Imaginary Western (Bruce / Brown)

When the wagons leave the city
for the forest, and further on
Painted wagons of the morning
dusty roads where they have gone
Sometimes travelling through the darkness
met the summer coming home
Fallen faces by the wayside
Looked as if they might have known

O the sun was in their eyes
and the desert that dries
In the country towns
where the laughter sounds

O the dancing and the singing
O the music when they played
O the fires that they started
O the girls with no regret
Sometimes they found it
Sometimes they kept it
Often lost it on the way
Fought each other to possess it
Sometimes died in sight of day


81 posted on 03/28/2004 7:39:28 PM PST by longshadow
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To: Wilhelm Tell
"Oh no! Not again!"

LOL

I'm sure that someone could come with mathematical proof that the Multiverse is merely the result of a single use of an Infinite Improbability Drive.
82 posted on 03/28/2004 8:00:06 PM PST by UnChained
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To: Heatseeker
Well that much is provable - The Fifth Dimension hasn't toured together in years.

Is this the dawning of the Age of Aquarius?

83 posted on 03/28/2004 8:31:08 PM PST by gg188
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To: gg188
Is this the dawning of the Age of Aquarius?

I hope not - I hated that song. Right up there with "Stairway to Heaven" as the most overplayed song in radio history.

84 posted on 03/28/2004 11:03:52 PM PST by Heatseeker
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To: AlbionGirl
The extra dimensions have not been observed. The particles that string theory predicts have not been observed. The theory itself is background dependent, meaning that you have to tweak it to fit observed data.

I've predicted elsewhere that it will eventually fall to some form of quantum gravity, but it's still early. ;)
85 posted on 03/29/2004 6:40:19 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: LogicWings
"Yeah, right. Then by what natural laws did anything go Bang?"

According the widely accepted inflationary model of the Big Bang, the Higg's inflaton field getting stuck on the energy plateau for 10^-35 seconds created an enormous negative pressure approximately 10^100 times that of all gravity of all mass. Negative pressure is the mechanism for which gravity can be repulsive (true!). This theory has been extremely successful in describing the pattern in the cosmic microwave background, which is why most physicists accept it.

Of course, what created the Higg's field and why did it find that energy plateau? I'd say God did it.
86 posted on 03/29/2004 6:48:44 AM PST by Flightdeck (Death is only a horizon)
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To: PatrickHenry
I don't buy many worlds, in favor of inflationary theory. I briefly wrote something down in post 86.
87 posted on 03/29/2004 6:49:56 AM PST by Flightdeck (Death is only a horizon)
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To: cornelis
We should remember that there are kinds of infinity.

One of the things that I have always understood was that this statement was wrong. There is only one infinity.

You can disagree if you wish, but if you really understand the concept of "Infinity" there cannot be separate "Infinities."

The concept implies unity.

88 posted on 04/07/2004 10:06:47 PM PDT by LogicWings
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
I thought it was the Pope who told Hawkings that it was permissible to study the Big Bang as far back as the moment of creation but not before. That's what I recall hearing Hawking say in a documentary years ago.

I never heard that. Explains everything to me. Can't question what we can't answer.

The only alternative is Faith in what we can never know.

Same movie.

89 posted on 04/07/2004 10:10:08 PM PDT by LogicWings
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To: Wilhelm Tell
I have it on good authority that the first human words spoken were 'uh oh' ...
90 posted on 04/07/2004 10:13:18 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Where is Nathan Brazil when you need him?
91 posted on 04/07/2004 10:16:43 PM PDT by teldon30
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To: stinkypew
If there is just Science, and not God, then we have only cause and effect.

How do you know THAT? This presupposes a knowledge that you cannot have based upon your next premise. . .

This necessarily means determinism; i.e., every current action, down to those of the smallest subatomic particles, was predetermined 16 billion years ago.

You cannot know that there is "determinism" because this presupposes a knowledge you cannot have if you are utterly predetermined. You don't "know" anything. You are a bunch of chemicals reacting to other chemicals.

Thus the following is nonsense.

This necessarily means determinism; i.e., every current action, down to those of the smallest subatomic particles, was predetermined 16 billion years ago. Emotions are just predetermined chemical reactions. There is no free will.

You cannot know what happened "16 billion years ago" because it was totally determined. You cannot "know" that those numbers are accurate. You whole argument falls apart.

And, you cannot postulate a "God" because you have no basis upon which to know anything. If you do not accept the validity of your senses you have no basis upon which to understand anything, including the concept of said, "God."

You cannot escape free will because you must chose whether to eat or starve, jump off the bridge or not, get a job or not, go on welfare or not, whether to masturbate or not. You are confronted with free will every moment of every day, in almost every situation. You cannot, from an apriori supposition, as you are doing here, assert that free will doesn't exist, because you cannot prove the apriori supposition. BY DEFINITION.

92 posted on 04/07/2004 10:23:01 PM PDT by LogicWings
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To: boris
Interestingly, it is always the invincibly ignorant who do not even know the correct spelling of the name of the scientist they "despise."

One of the first things I learned way back before the internet and it was all BBSs was that people make mistakes in spelling and this didn't mean they were "invincibly ignorant." I have long since quit nitpicking over such crap.

That is reserved for the intellectually vacant who have no other arguments.

93 posted on 04/07/2004 10:26:27 PM PDT by LogicWings
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To: cornelis
Perhaps one kind of question must be asked whenever we posit a most fundamental infinity. Is it intelligent and personal as we are?

It borders upon the Fallacy of Composition, but I find it difficult to conceive that INFINITY could contain any fewer qualities, including intelligence and personality, than I possess.

It would violate the definition of "all inclusive."

94 posted on 04/07/2004 10:30:54 PM PDT by LogicWings
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To: Flightdeck
Of course, what created the Higg's field and why did it find that energy plateau? I'd say God did it.

Define your concept of "God."

I get into a lot of trouble here, but the problem is in defining the concept. People rarely understand this aspect.

How did you come by this concept, "God"? What does it really mean? Have you ever 'experienced' it? Or is it just a floating abstraction that has no relation to reality? How did 'God' do 'it?'

To say, "nobody knows" isn't good enough because then you have to admit, you don't know that "God did it."

I will say this one time. I'm not questioning your belief. I'm questioning HOW you know your belief. Until you can answer that, you have nothing really.

95 posted on 04/07/2004 10:38:30 PM PDT by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
Your questions are important ones, and I can tell you my personal beliefs and HOW I believe them, but they don't satisfactorily explain the birth of the universe any more than the most recent physical theories (which don't even come close). I think "God" is probably more like a network, where each of us is a part of God and the sum of all of us is greater than the sum of each of us. I know that's abstract, but I can tell you why I believe in something at all. I have been conscious and completely aware outside my body. You can research out of body experiences with as much skepticism as you like, but it is real, and there is no conflict with researching it in a laboratory environment with scientific protocols. When this happens to you, you pass the point of BELIEVING to the point of KNOWING that there is existence outside the purely material body. With a lot of practice over the years, I have slowly become a little better at inducing this type of thing, but it is a life-changing experience for someone with little or only moderate belief in an afterlife, as I was. On a side note, I am a research scientist by profession, so no stranger to scientific atheism. But I often note with irony some of my colleagues' fervent belief that nothing exists after death based on a lack of evidence, even though not a shred of evidence exists to support their own strong faith (in nothing).
96 posted on 04/08/2004 8:23:24 AM PDT by Flightdeck (Death is only a horizon)
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To: LogicWings
One of the things that I have always understood was that this statement was wrong. There is only one infinity.

Then your understanding is wrong. You might start with Vilenkin's "Stories About Sets" to get a better understanding.

97 posted on 04/08/2004 8:46:16 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: PatrickHenry
Brings a whole new perspective to 'deja vu'.


BUMP

98 posted on 04/08/2004 9:06:26 AM PDT by tm22721 (May the UN rest in peace)
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To: LogicWings; Hank Kerchief
There is only one infinity. OK, Hank, how are we going to tell LW we won't be slaves to this Infinity?
99 posted on 04/08/2004 10:15:59 AM PDT by cornelis
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100
100 posted on 04/08/2004 5:20:27 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Yes, that IS a gun in my pocket; and no, I'm NOT happy to see you.)
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