Spain PM to withdraw Iraq troops

BBC ^ | 3/15/04

[kattracks]

Spain's Socialist Party prime minister-elect has confirmed his intention to pull Spanish troops out of Iraq. Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said: "The war in Iraq was a disaster, the occupation of Iraq is a disaster."

The Socialist Party won a shock poll victory after voters appeared to turn on the government over its handling of the Madrid bombings.

Spain, with more than 1,300 troops in Iraq, supported the US-led war on Iraq despite much domestic opposition.

Mr Zapatero told Spanish radio that no decision would be taken until he was in power or without wide political consultation.

But the soldiers would be pulled out if there was no change in Iraq by the 30 June deadline for transfer of sovereignty.

Our world affairs correspondent, Paul Reynolds, says that the situation in Iraq may well have changed by 30 June, but whether that influences the new government remains to be seen.

By then the US and UK hope that the Security Council will have given UN approval to the handover plan.

In addition the interim Iraqi government will be asking foreign troops to stay as part of a UN-approved multinational force.

Outsider

Socialists won 42% of the vote, while the centre-right Popular Party won 38% in Sunday's general election, held in the wake of the Madrid train bomb attacks that killed 200 people.

The BBC's Chris Morris, in Madrid, says the bombings did more than shock Spain to the core; they proved to be the decisive factor in the general election that ousted the government.

Mr Zapatero was - until Thursday's bombings - considered an outsider for Spain's top job.

Despite his party's victory, however, there is expected to be much political horse-trading because the Socialists did not win an absolute majority.

While Mr Zapatero said his first priority was to tackle terrorism "in all its forms", he is thought likely to do it in a very different way than the outgoing government.

A larger than expected 77% of the electorate turned out to vote in the wake of last Thursday's attacks.

Our correspondent says the late swing to the Socialists raises one disturbing thought - if al-Qaeda was responsible for Thursday's attacks, it appears to have had significant influence in changing the government of a leading Western democracy.

Investigations are continuing into who was behind the bombings.

A videotaped claim of responsibility by a man identifying himself as al-Qaeda's military spokesman in Europe forced the government to change its stance on the most likely suspects.

The tape - claiming revenge for Spain's "collaboration with the criminals Bush and his allies" - was found in a litter bin on Saturday following a tip-off to a TV station.

'Suspect has al-Qaeda link'

Three Moroccans and two Indians are being held in connection with the attacks.

The three Moroccans being held have been named as Jamal Zougam, 30, Mohamed Bekkali, 31, and Mohamed Chaoui, 34.

The two Indians arrested were named as Vinay Kohly and Suresh Kumar.

Spain's El Pais newspaper reported that investigators had found links between Jamal Zougam and the Salafia Jihadia group held responsible for attacks in Casablanca last May in which more than 40 people died.

One of the targets of the Moroccan attacks was a Spanish cultural centre, where four Spaniards were among the dead.

Reports also linked Jamal Zougam to a Spanish cell of al-Qaeda which was headed by Imad Eddin Barakat Yarkas, also known as "Abu Dahdah".

Abu Dahdah has been indicted by the Spanish anti-terrorist prosecutor Baltasar Garzon on charges relating to the preparation of the attacks of September 11, 2001 in the United States.

El Pais said Jamal Zougam was cited at two points in Garzon's indictment, but was not charged.

[TeleStraightShooter]

Come Come!

When Kerry's "the threat of terrorism has been exaggerated" is viewed in it's full qualified context: {as delineated by himself @ the prompting of Tom Brokaw}

"The threat of terrorism has been exaggerated... (because) there is no connection between Iraq & Al Queda

{clearing throat} What the @#$%$#! just happen in Spain????

[TeleStraightShooter]

Also know as ANZAC

[doug from upland]

el queso que come mono de rendición (cheese eating surrender monkey)

[sully777]

My post concerned use of tables vs. non-use of other tables I stated. I sought balance.

I thought you were making the classic argument spoken of by communists, or neo-fascists concerning WWII. I apologize if that was not your intention.

[Atlantic Friend]

When France is attacked - I'm sure it's not a matter of "if" anymore, not since 9/11 - I won't turn appeaser, that's for sure. But the Spaniards haven't either, and I'm sure they'd be mortally offended if you and I were to tell them they've surrendered to terrorism by electing a left-wing government.

What matters now, in my opinion of course, is how this government will react to the situation. They want to bring back their 1,300 troops in Iraq ? Well, if on the other hand they mobilize hundreds of their intelligence and law-enforcement officers to help Western security agencies prevent and thwart other terrorist attacks, I guess we'll be more than even.

[cartoonistx]

[ladyinred]

This is exactly what would happen with our own military action should (God forbid) Kerry manages to lie his way into the White House.

I shudder to think of that, and I am concerned about the citizens of Spain who acted upon pure emotion when they were attacked. Spain has now become one of the greatest enablers of terrorism of all.

God help them when they realize that appeasement with these monsters will not assure safety. God help all of us,or we will lose the world to socialists and terrorists.

[Atlantic Friend]

Scientists would say the fact that your ancestors were born seems to prove that their own foreftahers (and thus, my ancestors too) had perfectly functioning b*lls...

[dimk]

Fact that Nazis were bled dry on the eastern front is not really something that can be disputed it has nothing to do with communist propaganda. If you look at number of German life lost at Kursk(Prohorovka alone led to destruction of 300+ German tanks in 1 day battle), Stalingrad comparing it to the Bulge or any battles in Normandy is impossible. US helped USSR alot with sending transport, planes(highest scoring soviet ace flew P39 AirCobra and loved the plane which was hated by most American pilots) and that commie propaganda forgot but saying that US won the war by itself is just ignorant.

Did US really care about life of their soldiers more? Yes kind of, but US government didn't bother developing a decent tank until the very end of the war. Sherman was an embarrassment, only decent widely used version was British modified firefly(killed highest scoring German tank ace) that had 17pounder gun that could actually kill German tank from more then pointblank range. US army own research showed that US used 7! shermans per 1 german tank destroyed. This is 7 crews completely or partially lost, and sherman was not fun to be hit in(attacking Tiger in sherman was like attacking M1A2 in T72, not fun). Gasoline engine caught fire easily from most hits. Soviets who horribly wasted human life developed better tank in 1941, most of the german tank development was in response to soviet t34.

Those points got to me so I had to reply to them first :)

Spanish reaction while cowardly was not unexpected. Terrorists knew what they were doing when they picked the target and timing. This one will go into the terrorist training manuals all over the world. Very sad day indeed.

Poland is a great ally for US. Most people in Poland hate muslims with passion. Seriously our ancestors(one side of my family is Polish) were fighting them at Vienna and in 100 other battles over the years. Most of the Polish history revolves around either fighting muslims, russians or Ukrainians(who hate muslims just as much this is my other family side). There is a reason why nothing like this is possible in Poland. Day after such attack there would muslim corpses hanging from lampposts in Warzaw. There is no internal muslim support for terrorists from outside the country. And the response will be very scary for any muslim stupid enough to live in poland day after attack. Poles might have not won a war in a long time but they could never be accused of cowardice in ww2 they fought germans to the bitter end, while being simultaneously attacked by ussr in the east(people forget this part).

Anyway this attack shows who is really in the coalition to fight terror and who was just along for the ride. Italy will be next target, they will drop too. Brits, Aussies, Poles can be depended on. Japan might get attacked, creating regime change there to someone who will not give money for the anti terror will be easy.

Well I just hope next november there will be no regime change in US :(

[Truth29]

That was a reply designed to be targeted to Europe and noticed by the euroweenies. Of course, we are grateful to Australia.

[KQQL]

SPAIN SURRENDS MOORS AGAIN..!!!! THIS TIME AS ISLAMOFASCISTS!

[MeekOneGOP]

Way to go !

[MeekOneGOP]

Exactly !

[oh8eleven]

Gun bunny??? I was with an 8" Howitzer Battery in RVN and I'm still known as "Long Tom" to this day. :>)
Semper Fi ...

[daybreakcoming]

I can't realistically call all of Spain appeasers. The media chooses to quote the ones who are. There were many who did vote for the Popular Party. And another thing to consider is how close the Med coast of Spain is to north Africa. It is rather like our US/Mexican border. They come and go at ease in the port of Alicante.
I just note the difference in our two countries' response to major attack.

[Atlantic Friend]

Well, time will tell if the new Spanish government is serious about fighting the WOT.

[B-Cause]

EL IR WOBBLY EN ESPAÑA

By Ed Daley - The Daley Times-Post

Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, the famous Spanish author of the book 'Don Quijote' (short title) once wrote "He who loses wealth loses much; he who loses a friend loses more; but he that loses his courage loses all." How profound those words are, and certainly must be to many of the people who have lost the second of those first two things, in this war we now fight. How dispiriting it is as well that so many others, following the sickening terrorist attacks of March 11 in Madrid, now seem to have lost that precious third thing.

The loss of courage of which I write is embodied in the actions of a plurality of voters in Spain, who only two days after those attacks elected a new Prime Minister named Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. His Socialist party has been highly critical of former Prime Minister Aznar's decision to support U.S.-led military actions in Iraq, and Zapatero is now promising to withdraw all Spanish troops from that country in the coming months. The overwhelming opinion of the people who voted against Aznar is that his administration is at least partially responsible for those attacks, because the terrorists who brought them about only did so to punish Spain for siding with the United States. While it may be true that Al-Qaeda has targeted Spain for being a U.S. ally, one has to ask what the people of that country expect from these terrorist now... kudos?

Just today I read an article in WorldNetDaily which exposes Al-Qaeda's intent to cause the very outcome that has come about in Spain's election. In a document obtained by CNN, which was originally posted on an internet message board in December of 2003, the following words appear. "We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or three at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the public pressure on it." This statement was reported to have been made by Al-Qaeda and its confederates. The authors went on to add that "If its forces remain after these blows, the victory of the Socialist Party will be almost guaranteed - and the withdrawal of Spanish forces will be on its campaign manifesto."

Economist Lorenzo Bernaldo de Quiroz said recently that "Spaniards have voted with their hearts, not with their heads." Truly this is the case, for had the people of Spain taken the time to think about their decision, they likely would have come to understand that withdrawing troops from Iraq at this time will only further embolden the terrorists who attacked them. By voting out the man who has stood by President Bush and the other members of our war coalition, the people of Spain are handing a victory to Osama Bin Laden and everyone like him! They are sending these parasites an unambiguous message that the acts of murderers can and will shape the way they are governed, and that if they are attacked, they will retreat.

Whether or not this was their intention is irrelevant, for the fact remains that their sudden, knee-jerk reaction to the horrific events of the 11th will indeed strengthen the resolve of terrorists everywhere and increase the threat of mass murder to the free people of the world. The reluctance of the Spanish people to strike a defiant posture during this time of tragedy has opened a door for the appeasers among them to walk through, and that they have now done. The enemy within has just been allowed to bring the nation of Spain to it's knees in the face of threats by the enemy without.

If what I've just written is insulting to our former allies in this world war, then so be it. I make no apologies for my position or for my intent. I'm as deadly serious as any Al-Qaeda terrorist can be, and I reject the proposition that I or anyone else will be safer by simply ignoring the threat we face. I expect harsh criticism for what I write, and welcome any confrontation over it. I have the righteousness of my cause to strengthen me and find solace in my honor during times of adversity. That is something which my enemies cannot claim, and, apparently, those concepts are equally as alien to many people in Spain who would rather bend over and take what's given them than spit in the faces of their adversaries and deal with the consequences.

If the Spanish people should fail to understand the point I'm making here or refuse to listen to the criticisms of the many millions of people out there who think as I do, then our efforts may well be for naught, but let them at least lend their attention to an ancient Spanish proverb which relates "A life lived in fear is a life half lived." Those words are as true today as they have always been. Allow fear to gain purchase in your heart and you will be enslaved by it. Bend to its will and you shall lose your own. The citizens of Spain have just made a horrendous mistake, but they need not repeat it, and if they heed the following words, they won't. Terrorists cannot be reasoned with or ignored. The only option left to the free people of this planet is victory over them, and victory is accomplished, in part, by making those you fear, fear you more.

---

[Eva]

It looks like Europe has produced a new breed of surrender monkeys.

[spanish]

Estáis completamente equivocados.España, como el resto del mundo, gritó contra la guerra en 2003 porque es una guerra injusta, y lo ha hecho ahora en las urnas. Ha votado no a la guerra, pero también no a la mentira, porque el Gobierno de España ha mentido intentando ocultar la verdad diciendo que el atentado del 11-M era obra de ETA.
La guerra que habeis emprendido no se trata de una lucha contra el terrorismo internacional, como ingenuamente creeis, sino una guerra por petroleo y para renovar vuestro arsenal, creando riqueza, empleo y suculentos dividendos para vuestras rentables industrias armamentísticas.
Hablais de la segunda guerra mundial, de Hitler y Franco, de la postura de España en aquel conflicto, pero olvidais lo básico: España, en 1936, era un gobierno democrático, elegido por los votos de sus ciudadanos, y nadie excepto las Brigadas Internacionales –un grupo de ardientes defensores de la democracia– hizo frente a la infamia del Golpe de Estado de Franco ni a la aniquilación de la democracia (un millón de muertos) por el ejercito golpista, con el apoyo de Italia y Alemania (fascistas entonces).
El pueblo americano tiene, como cualquier otro del mundo, todo mi respeto. No se puede generalizar nunca, mucho menos llamando cobardes o basura, como he leido en este foro, a los españoles.
No os equivoqueis. La guerra de Irak, como la de Afganistan, no acabará con el terrorismo internacional. Podrá terminar con líderes fascistas como Saddam Hussein, pero no con Al Qaeda, porque Al Qaeda nace, se surte y se alimenta del terror que generan gobiernos como el de Israel, y que consienten y alimentan gobiernos como el de Bush, pero también el de España, Francia, Italia, Reino Unido,.... TODOS.
Sin paz global no desaparecerá el terror, y cabría preguntarse: ¿no sería más eficaz gastar el dinero que está empleando Estados Unidos en armas en acabar con la pobreza, la explotación y situaciones injustas en todo el mundo?
Vuestro desarrollo económico es envidiable, pero no puede consentir que cada año mueran millones de personas de hambre en el mundo. Esa debe ser la prioridad de un gobierno justo y solidario con el Hombre.
¿Por qué atacais Irak y tolerasteis las atrocidades y los crímenes contra la Humanidad de Argentina o Chile? Simplemente, por los intereses económicos.

[Shethink13]

I disagree. I think the Islamokazis have learned some valuable lessons.

1) Push the U.S., and they push back, a hundred times as hard.

2) Push the Europeans, and they fold like origami paper.

Now, if you're a terrorist, whom do you push?

Exactly. I posted on another thread that I believe part of the reason Spain was attacked was that Al-Qaeda was aware that they did not take the threat of terrorism seriously and were not prepared security-wise to prevent the attack. Evidently, a majority of their citizens believe you can negotiate with terrorists.