Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ohio's Critical Analysis of Evolution
Critical Evaluation of Evolution ^ | March 2004 | Ohio State Board of Education

Posted on 03/13/2004 11:53:26 AM PST by js1138

Critical Analysis of Evolution – Grade 10 

 

Life Sciences

 

Benchmark H

Describe a foundation of biological evolution as the change in gene frequency of a population over time. Explain the historical and current scientific developments, mechanisms and processes of biological evolution. Describe how scientists continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory. (The intent of this benchmark does not mandate the teaching or testing of intelligent design.)

 

Indicator 23

Describe how scientists continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory. (The intent of this indicator does not mandate the teaching or testing of intelligent design.)

 

Scientific Ways of Knowing

 

Benchmark A

Explain that scientific knowledge must be based on evidence, be predictive, logical, subject to modification and limited to the natural world.

 

Indicator 2

Describe that scientists may disagree about explanations of phenomena, about interpretation of data or about the value of rival theories, but they do agree that questioning, response to criticism and open communication are integral to the process of science.

 

Indicator 3

Recognize that science is a systematic method of continuing investigation, based on observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, and theory building, which leads to more adequate explanations of natural phenomena.

 

Lesson Summary:

 

This lesson allows students to critically analyze five different aspects of evolutionary theory. As new scientific data emerge, scientists’ understandings of the natural world may become enhanced, modified or even changed all together. Using library and Internet sources, groups of students will conduct background research for one of the aspects of evolution in preparation for a critical analysis discussion. Students also will listen to, and take notes on, their classmates' critical analyses of evolution theory.

 

Estimated Duration: Four to six hours

 

Commentary:

 

This lesson should be used midway or toward the end of a unit on evolution. This will allow students to “carry over” their knowledge of basic evolutionary concepts into this lesson. The strength of this lesson lies in having students research topics that interest them about evolutionary biology. Students are encouraged to consider the research and discuss their findings with fellow students.

 

Pre-Assessment:

 

·        The following items can be used to stimulate dialogue with the students.

·        Instruct students to copy the following items from the chalkboard in their science lab notebook.

1.      Describe anomalies and explain why they exist.

2.      Are there any benefits to exploring scientific anomalies?

3.      How do scientists make and test predictions?

4.      How do scientists critically analyze conflicting data?

5.      Define the following terms in your own words:

§         Theory

§         Critical analysis

§         Natural selection

§         Biological evolution

§         Macroevolution

§         Microevolution

·        Direct students to respond to the questions in their science notebook in as much detail as possible leaving space to record information from the ensuing dialogue to add to their notes.

 

Scoring Guidelines:

 

Collect pre-assessments and evaluate for indication of prior knowledge and/or misconception. Sample definitions for question five in the pre-assessment include, but are not limited to, the following:

·        Theory
A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

·        Critical analysis
The separation of an intellectual idea into its constituent parts for the purpose of a careful, exact evaluation and judgment about those parts and their interrelationships in making up a whole. (This definition combines the definition for critical and analysis.)

·        Natural selection
The principle that in a given environment, individuals having characteristics that aid survival will produce more offspring, and the proportion of individuals having such characteristics will increase with each succeeding generation.

·        Biological evolution
Changes in the genetic composition of a population through successive generations.

·        Macroevolution
Large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups.

·        Microevolution
Evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies.

 

Post-Assessment:

 

 

Instructional Procedures:

Instructional Tip:

Scientists make a distinction between two areas of evolutionary theory. First, scientists consider mutation, natural selection, genetic drift and gene flow (immigration and emigration) as the processes that generate evolutionary changes in organisms and populations. Second, the theory of universal common descent describes the historical pattern of biological change. This theory maintains that all living forms have descended from earlier living forms and ultimately from a single common ancestor. Darwin envisioned the theory of universal common descent as a necessary result of evolutionary changes in organisms and populations, and represented it in his branching tree of life. Students will investigate and analyze these two areas of evolutionary theory in this lesson.

 

In addition to the distinctions between different areas of evolutionary theory, scientists also find it helpful to distinguish amounts of biological change or evolution. Microevolution refers to evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies. Macroevolution refers to large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups. These terms are helpful distinctions in the course of analyzing evolutionary theory. These terms have appeared in OhioLink research databases, numerous Internet sites, and biology and evolution textbooks. Though “micro” and “macro” are prefixes, it is quite clear that the scientific community recognizes and acknowledges the distinction between the words. To help ensure academic clarity, this lesson distinguishes between microevolution and macroevolution. Teachers may need to provide support to students to help them understand this distinction throughout the lesson.

 

Student Engagement

 

  1. Write the following statement on the chalkboard or overhead:
    Anomalies are observations in science that depart from the general consensus of the time. Many anomalies occur in science. Scientists create hypotheses to explain these anomalies and then carry out experiments to try to disprove their hypotheses. Disproven hypotheses are rejected and those that are not disproven are subjected to further testing.
  2. Ask students to think through the following science topics and discuss where anomalies led to the collection of data that further explained the phenomena and contributed to changing scientific understandings.

·        Spontaneous generation versus biogenesis
Several pieces of data could be used. One example is Francesco Redi’s observation that flies must contact meat in order for maggots to appear on the meat.

·        Geocentric versus Heliocentric
Several pieces of data could be used. One example is the observed phases of Venus.

  1. Ask students to cite additional areas where critical analysis is needed by the scientific community.

 

Teacher Presentation

  1. Present supporting and challenging information for five aspects of evolution found in Attachment A. This will give students background information concerning both supporting and challenging evidence. Students can use this information to focus their research.

 

Instructional Tip:

Alternative strategies for beginning this lesson could be to engage students in a Socratic discussion or a mini-lecture. See the Web site for student research at the Los Alamos National Laboratory for guidelines on the Socratic method. The Web address is listed in the Technology Connections section.

 

Student Research

  1. Form groups consisting of two to four students. Assign each group a number to help monitor their activities and assignments during the lesson.
  2. Allow the groups to pick (or assign) one of the five aspects of evolutionary theory. Assign two groups to research each aspect. The aspects are:

Aspect 1: Homology (anatomical and molecular)

Aspect 2: Fossil Record

Aspect 3: Anti-Biotic Resistance

Aspect 4: Peppered Moths

Aspect 5: Endosymbiosis

 

  1. Distribute Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet, to help guide research. Allow time for the two groups assigned the same aspect to research their topic by answering questions on the Investigative Worksheet. Have groups use the worksheet as a guide to help them research supporting and challenging data on their particular aspect of evolution. The worksheet will help students organize their ideas and facilitate their critical analysis.

 

Instructional Tip:

Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet, has questions that can be applied to all five aspects. This will help students become familiar with the data, and therefore be able to critically analyze the evidence for either the supporting side or the challenging side. As they complete the worksheet, the group members may all work together on each question, or divide the questions among themselves and then share their findings as a group.

 

  1. After the groups have completed their research, collect the Investigative Worksheets and review them. Return the worksheet to them prior to the next step of the instructional procedures; the critical analysis activity. The Investigative Worksheet is a formative assessment which will enable the teacher to check the student work and if necessary, assist in any way to help ensure student success on his or her critical analysis activity.

Critical Analysis Activity

  1. Allow the students to spend time researching and preparing for the critical analysis activity on both the supporting and challenging information. Prior to the activity, randomly determine which of the two groups will present supporting information and which will present challenging information. You may have groups draw cards to help objectively determine if they will research the supporting or challenging information.

 

Instructional Tip:

Encourage all students to participate in the critical analysis activity because the experience will be a learning opportunity. Be prepared, however, to distribute alternate assignments to students who do not want to participate.

 

  1. Hand out Attachment C, Critical Analysis Rubric, to help students understand the materials they need to prepare and how they should conduct their presentations.
  2. Ask each group to write out their introduction, outline their presentations and write their conclusions. Have students practice their presentations to be sure that they are concise.
  3. Have two pairs of students address each aspect. Have one group present the data that support an aspect and the other group present the data that challenge the aspect. Flip a coin to decide which group begins the critical analysis activity. Instruct each side to present its research. The teacher will serve as facilitator to assure that the groups remain on task and on time. There are no winners or losers in this critical analysis activity. This is a sharing of the results of their research concerning evolution.
  4. Encourage students to actively participate as they critically analyze their assigned aspect. To ensure that they remain engaged as they watch and listen to the other groups, distribute copies of Attachment D, Critical Analysis Worksheet, and have them take notes. At the conclusion of the lesson, this worksheet will be turned in for a grade.  
  5. Use Attachment C, Critical Analysis Rubric, to evaluate each group's presentation.
  6. Proceed to the post-assessment to evaluate students' understanding.

 

Differentiated Instructional Support:

Instruction is differentiated according to learner needs, to help all learners either meet the intent of the specified indicator(s) or, if the indicator is already met, to advance beyond the specified indicator(s).

 

 

Extension:

Have students consider other aspects of evolutionary biology that are critically analyzed by scientists. Possible topics include:

 

 

 

Interdisciplinary Connections:

Social Studies Skills and Methods Standard

 

 

Benchmark A

Evaluate the reliability and credibility of sources.

Indicator 1

Determine the credibility of sources by considering the following:

a.       The qualifications and reputation of the writer;

b.      Agreement with other credible sources;

c.       Recognition of stereotypes;

d.      Accuracy and consistency of sources;

e.       The circumstances in which the author prepared the source.

 

 

 

English Language Arts Research Standard

 

 

Benchmark B

Evaluate the usefulness and credibility of data and sources.

Indicator 3

Determine the accuracy of sources and the credibility of the author by analyzing the sources’ validity (e.g., authority, accuracy, objectivity, publication date and coverage, etc.).

Benchmark C

Organize information from various resources and select appropriate sources to support central ideas, concepts and themes.

Indicator 2

Identify appropriate sources and gather relevant information from multiple sources (e.g., school library catalogs, online databases, electronic resources and Internet-based resources).

Indicator 4

Evaluate and systematically organize important information, and select appropriate sources to support central ideas, concepts and themes.

 

 

Materials and Resources:

The inclusion of a specific resource in any lesson formulated by the Ohio Department of Education should not be interpreted as an endorsement of that particular resource, or any of its contents, by the Ohio Department of Education. The Ohio Department of Education does not endorse any particular resource. The Web addresses listed are for a given site’s main page, therefore, it may be necessary to search within that site to find the specific information required for a given lesson. Please note that information published on the Internet changes over time, therefore the links provided may no longer contain the specific information related to a given lesson. Teachers are advised to preview all sites before using them with students.

 

For the teacher: attachments, resource materials such as the Internet, World Wide Web, library resources

For the student: attachments, resource materials such as the Internet, World Wide Web, library resources

 

Vocabulary:

 

 

Technology Connections:

 

Research Connections:

Marzano, R. et al. Classroom Instruction that Works: Research-Based Strategies for Increasing Student Achievement. Alexandria: Associat ion for Supervision and Curriculum Development, 2001.

 

 

General Tips:

 

 

1.      Ayala, Francisco, "The Mechanisms of Evolution." Scientific American, 239:3 (1978): 56-69.

  1. Brickhouse, Nancy. "Diversity of Students’ Views about Evidence, Theory." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 37:4 (2000).
  2. Carroll, Robert L. (1997/98). “Limits to Knowledge of the Fossil Record”. Zoology. 100 (1997/98): 221-231.
  3. Carroll, Robert L. “Towards a New Evolutionary Synthesis.” Trends in Ecology and Evolution 15 (2000): 27-32.
  4. Cherfas, J. "Exploring the Myth of the Melanic Moth." New Scientist. (1986): 25.
  5. Chinn, Clark. "An Empirical Test of a Taxonomy of Responses to Anomalous Data in Science." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 35:6 (1998).
  6. Chinn, Clark. "The Role of Anomalous Data in Knowledge Acquisition: A Theoretical Framework and Implications for Science Instruction." Review of Educational Research. 63:1 (1993): 1-49.
  7. Darwin, Charles. On the Origin of Species: A Facsimile of the First Edition. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 1975.
  8. Denton, Michael. Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. Bethesda: Adler and Adler, 1986.
  9. Doolittle, W. Ford “Uprooting the Tree of Life,” Scientific American, 282 (2000): 90-95.
  10. Erwin, Douglas. “Macroevolution is More Than Repeated Rounds of Microevolution,” Evolution & Development 2 (2000): 78-84.
  11. Erwin, Douglas. “Early Introduction of Major Morphological Innovations,” Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 38 (1994): 281-294.
  12. Evans, Margaret E. "The Emergence of Beliefs About the Origins of Species in School-Age Children." Merrill-Palmer Quarterly. 46:2 (2000): 221-253.
  13. Faust, David. The Limits of Scientific Reasoning. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1984.
  14. Fitch, W., and E. Margoliash, "Construction of Phylogenetic Trees." Science 155 (1967): 281.
  15. Gilbert, Scott F., et al. “Resynthesizing Evolutionary and Developmental Biology,” Journal of Developmental Biology 173 (1996): 357-372.
  16. Jeffares, D. “Relics from the RNA World.” Journal of Molecular Evolution 46 (1998): 18-36.
  17. Lee, Michael. “Molecular Phylogenies become Functional” Trends in Ecology and Evolution. 14 (1999): 177-178.
  18. Levinton, Jeffrey S. “The Big Bang of Animal Evolution.” Scientific American 267 (1992): 84-91.
  19. Lewin, Roger. "Evolutionary Theory Under Fire." Science. 210 (1980): 883.
  20. Mahoney, Michael. "Publication Prejudices: an Experimental Study of Confirmatory Bias in the Peer Review System." Cognitive Therapy and Research. 1:2 (1977): 161-175.
  21. Margoulis, L., and D. Sagan. "Bacterial Bedfellows." Natural History 96 (1987): 26-33.
  22. Martin W., and M. Muller. "The Hydrogen Hypothesis for the First Eukaryote." Nature 392 (1998): 37-41.
  23. Mikkola, K. "On the Selective Forces Acting in the Industrial Melanism of Biston oligia Moths." Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 21 (1984): 409-421.
  24. Mynatt, Clifford. "Confirmation Bias in a Simulated Research Environment: An Experimental Study of Scientific Inference." Quarterly Journal of ExperimentalPsychology. 29 (1977): 85-95.
  25. National Academy of Science. Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science. Washington: National Academy Press, 1998.
  26. National Academy of Science. National Science Education Standards. Washington, National Academy Press, 1996.
  27. Pennisi, E. “Direct descendants from an RNA world.” Science 280 (1998): 673.
  28. Philippe, Herve, and Patrick Forterre. “The Rooting of the Universal Tree of Life is Not Reliable.” Journal of Molecular Evolution 49 (1999): 509-523.
  29. Plous, Scott. The Psychology of Judgment and Decision Making. New York: McGraw Hill, 1993.
  30. Samarapungavan, Ala. "Children’s judgment in theory choice tasks: Scientific rationality in childhood. Cognition. 45 (1992): 1-32.
  31. Shubin, Neil H. and Charles R. Marshall. “Fossils, Genes, and the Origin of Novelty.” Deep Time (2000): 324-340.
  32. Smith, John M., and Eörs Szathmáry. The Major Transitions in Evolution. Oxford: Oxford UP, 1995.
  33. Smith, Mike U. "Counterpoint: Belief, Understanding, and Teaching of Evolution." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 3:5 (1994): 591-597.
  34. Thagard, Paul. Mind, Society, and the Growth of Knowledge. Philosophy of Science. (1994): 61.
  35. Thomson , Keith S. “Macroevolution: The Morphological Problem,” American Zoologist 32 (1992): 106-112.
  36. Thomson, Keith S. "Marginalia: The Meanings of Evolution.” American Scientist. 70. (1982): 529-531.

 

Attachments:

Attachment A, Five Aspects of Evolution

Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet

 

Attachment A

Five Aspects of Evolution

 

Aspect 1: Homology

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: Different animals have very similar anatomical and genetic structures. This suggests that these animals share a common ancestor from which they inherited the genes to build these anatomical structures. Evolutionary biologists call similarities that are due to common ancestry “homologies.” For example, the genes that produce hemoglobin molecules (an oxygen carrying protein) in chimps and humans are at least 98% identical in sequence. As another example, bats, humans, horses, porpoises and moles all share a forelimb that has the same pattern of bone structure and organization. The hemoglobin molecule and the “pentadactyl limb” provide evidence for common ancestors. Also, the genetic code is universal, suggesting that a common ancestor is the source.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Some scientists think similarities in anatomical and genetic structure reflect similar functional needs in different animals, not common ancestry. The nucleotide sequence of hemoglobin DNA is very similar between chimps and humans, but this may be because they provide the same function for both animals. Also, if similar anatomical structures really are the result of a shared evolutionary ancestry, then similar anatomical structures should be produced by related genes and patterns of embryological development. However, sometimes, similar anatomical structures in different animals are built from different genes and by different pathways of embryological development. Scientists can use these different anatomical structures and genes to build versions of Darwin family trees that will not match each other. This shows that diverse forms of life may have different ancestry.

 

Aspect 2: Fossil Record

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research. 

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: The fossil record shows an increase in the complexity of living forms from simple one-celled organisms, to the first simple plants and animals, to the diverse and complex organisms that live on Earth today. This pattern suggests that later forms evolved from earlier simple forms over long periods of geological time. Macroevolution is the large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups. The slow transformations are reflected in transitional fossils such as Archaeopteryx (a reptile-like bird) and mammal-like reptiles. These transitional fossils bridge the gap from one species to another species and from one branch on the tree of life to another.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Transitional fossils are rare in the fossil record. A growing number of scientists now question that Archaeopteryx and other transitional fossils really are transitional forms. The fossil record as a whole shows that major evolutionary changes took place suddenly over brief periods of time followed by longer periods of “stasis” during which no significant change in form or transitional organisms appeared (Punctuated Equilibria). The “Cambrian explosion” of animal phyla is the best known, but not the only example, of the sudden appearance of new biological forms in the fossil record.

 

Aspect 3: Antibiotic Resistance

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: The number of strains of antibiotic resistant bacteria, such as of Staphylococcus aureus, have significantly increased in number over time. Antibiotics used by patients to eliminate disease-causing bacterial organisms have facilitated this change. When some bacteria acquire a mutation that allows them to survive in the presence of antibiotics, they begin to survive in greater numbers than those that do not have this mutation-induced resistance. This shows how environmental changes and natural selection can produce significant changes in populations and species over time.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: The increase in the number of antibiotic resistant bacterial strains demonstrates the power of natural selection to produce small but limited changes in populations and species. It does not demonstrate the ability of natural selection to produce new forms of life. Although new strains of Staphylococcus aureus have evolved, the speciation of bacteria (prokaryotes) has not been observed, and neither has the evolution of bacteria into more complex eukaryotes. Thus, the phenomenon of antibiotic resistance demonstrates microevolution.

 

Aspect 4: Peppered Moths (Biston betularia)

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: During the industrial revolution in England, more soot was released into the air. As a result, the tree trunks in the woodlands grew darker in color. This environmental change also produced a change in the population of English peppered moths (scientifically known as Biston betularia). Studies during the 1950s have suggested a reason for this change. It was observed that light-colored moths resting on dark-colored tree trunks were readily eaten by birds. They had become more visible by their predators compared to their dark-colored counterparts. This different exposure to predation explained why the light-colored moths died with greater frequency when pollution darkened the forest. It also explained why light-colored moths later made a “comeback” when air quality improved in England. This whole situation demonstrates how the process of natural selection can change the features of a population over time.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: English peppered moths show that environmental changes can produce microevolutionary changes within a population. They do not show that natural selection can produce major new features or forms of life, or a new species for that matter—i.e., macroevolutionary changes. From the beginning of the industrial revolution, English peppered moths came in both light and dark varieties. After the pollution decreased, dark and light varieties still existed. All that changed during this time was the relative proportion of the two traits within the population. No new features and no new species emerged. In addition, recent scientific articles have questioned the factual basis of the study performed during the 1950s. Scientists have learned that peppered moths do not actually rest on tree trunks. This has raised questions about whether color changes in the moth population were actually caused by differences in exposure to predatory birds.

 

Aspect 5: Endosymbiosis (formation of cellular organelles)

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: Complex eukaryotic cells contain organelles such as chloroplasts and mitochondria. These organelles have their own DNA. This suggests that bacterial cells may have become established in cells that were ancestral to eukaryotes. These smaller cells existed for a time in a symbiotic relationship within the larger cell. Later, the smaller cell evolved into separate organelles within the eukaryotic ancestors. The separate organelles, chloroplast and mitochondria, within modern eukaryotes stand as evidence of this evolutionary change.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Laboratory tests have not yet demonstrated that small bacteria (prokaryotic cells) can change into separate organelles, such as mitochondria and chloroplasts within larger bacterial cells. When smaller bacterial cells (prokaryotes) are absorbed by larger bacterial cells, they are usually destroyed by digestion. Although some bacterial cells (prokaryotes) can occasionally live in eukaryotes, scientists have not observed these cells changing into organelles such as mitochondria or chloroplasts.

 

 

Attachment B

Investigative Worksheet

 

This activity will help you to prepare for the critical analysis activity. Complete the following table by addressing the following points when you record supporting and challenging data for one aspect of evolution. Record your responses on the appropriate space on the chart.

 

 


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; intelligentdesign; ohio; scienceeducation
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 801-803 next last
To: js1138
"The author is obviously pure evil. "

Thanks for posting the whole article, but why is he evil? Is it...

  1. He sides with the scientific establishment?
  2. He teaches the scientific establishment line?
  3. He exposes the propaganda techniques?
  4. He admits that there is contradicting evidence?
  5. He has reservations about using the propaganda techniques?
  6. He wants his students to think critically?
  7. He isn't displeased when his students reject his teachings?

    I suspect the only thing in that list that truly makes him evil is #1 and #2, but that evols will see him as evil for #3, #4, #5, #6 and #7


221 posted on 03/14/2004 4:55:19 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 218 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Thus, the "surrender to authority" most students have to make in science classes as a way to get started isn't that unreasonable

Which he clearly states.

I find myself having mixed reactions on these threads. I certainly believe the opposition has no intellectual merit in the field of science, but I personally rebel at authority. I was not a good student. I simply can't conform in a classroom. I want to be devil's advocate.

222 posted on 03/14/2004 5:08:13 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
It's a joke, son. He is evil because he is truthful. You might notice, if you read the article, that he is teaching physics, not evolution, and he is not teaching he doesn't believe in. He is merely sad because there aren't enough hours in the day to deal with every possible objection. Like everything else in life, you have to make choices amomg possibilities. If you pause to smell every rose, you never ger anywhere.
223 posted on 03/14/2004 5:12:44 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 221 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
free-thinking placemarker
224 posted on 03/14/2004 5:31:14 PM PST by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: js1138
Darwin Central has noted your backslider tendencies. Perhaps some reeducation will be in order.
225 posted on 03/14/2004 6:09:28 PM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 222 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Perhaps some reeducation will be in order.

Harsher methods are required: a two-week incarceration on a deserted island with the Tedster, F'dot, and "the one who spewed in blue" on a diet of Granola and prune juice should suffice.

226 posted on 03/14/2004 6:17:22 PM PST by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 225 | View Replies]

To: js1138
I find myself having mixed reactions on these threads. I certainly believe the opposition has no intellectual merit in the field of science, but I personally rebel at authority. I was not a good student. I simply can't conform in a classroom. I want to be devil's advocate.

Your file is under review. Our long-standing policy is that we don't mind (too much) if our operatives rebel at authority; but we find it a grevious fault if they rebel at reality. If you want to resign for a better-paying position on the devil's staff (presumably writing articles for a creationist website) we will release you. But first you'll have to pay what you owe to the company store.

227 posted on 03/14/2004 6:27:04 PM PST by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 222 | View Replies]

To: RightWingNilla
I'll tell my advisor first thing tommorrow that we've been doing it all wrong.

No need to do that. Not everything is wrong. Collecting, identifying, and sorting data is important for us all, and evolutionists are very good at it.

So when you go about collecting your facts, tell me what happens when you start regularly noticing things like dead retroviral DNA and fused chimp chromosomes? Conclude the all powerful, all knowing designer is trying to mess with us humans? Real intelligent.

I'd cross that bridge when I came to it, but, as with life in general, when I observe things that are corrupt, or that die, it reminds me that this condition came about at a certain point in history when the first man answered the following question in the negative: "Did God say . . . .?"

But even without consideration for that part of the picture, one thing I would not do, and cannot do, even without a miscroscope, is discard the obvious notion that there is a heckuva lot of intelligent design around here, and that SOMEONE is behind it all.

228 posted on 03/14/2004 6:34:56 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 215 | View Replies]

To: jennyp
There's no reason to be surprised by the constancy of constants.

Of course not. Neither is there any reason to be surprised at the notion that the presence of the same can be attributed to intelligence or design. I mean, if you were going to build something, is it unreasonable for me to assume that you would want it to act with consistency and design?

I say that the assumption that there's a someONE behind it all isn't reasonable at all.

I can see why it would require a certain leap of faith at this point, but it is no more a leap of faith than noONE.

By analogy, let's suppose you build something a turn it loose. If I were a component built into your object, and had conscieousness, should I really expect your personal involvement to manisfest itself in such a way that you would occasionally appear to me personally and speak to me? I don't think so.

If there is a WHO behind all the intelligent design we observe in the course of nature and history, would it be accurate of us to assume that that WHO must poke its head through the clouds every one in a while to remind us who's boss? I don't think so.

And if that WHO thought it was a good idea to build consciousness and free will into the object, do you think it would be proper to coerce the object thereafter?

The Bible says Jacob wrestled with God. Can you imagine that? I bet that will throw every evolutionist for a loop around the universe. Ha! Hehehe. We're all wrestling in our own way, aren't we?

229 posted on 03/14/2004 6:56:35 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: longshadow
Harsher methods are required: a two-week incarceration on a deserted island with the Tedster, F'dot, and "the one who spewed in blue" on a diet of Granola and prune juice should suffice.

I meant "reeducation" in the Maoist Proletarian Cultural Revolutionary sense, of course. Your suggestion would be as good as any camp.

230 posted on 03/14/2004 7:04:37 PM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
Evolutionists assume "random chance" was the causative event not because of the evidence, but because they assume a lack of a creator. Thus their belief system is influencing their science.

That is precisely what the controversy is all about.

Creationists assume "intelligent design" was the causative event because the evidence is visible even to the naked eye of a two-year-old. What is more, they do not necessarily import their belief system into science, but they operate with this knowledge in the background. They work within a GIVEN; they operate with intelligence and design in a universe chock full of intelligent design, for without a maker there can be no discoverer nor anything TO discover.

Without design and intelligence there would not even be consciousness, let alone materials to observe.

231 posted on 03/14/2004 7:15:56 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 206 | View Replies]

To: Junior
Except that neither creationism nor current cosmology deals with infinity, and both postulate definite beginnings.

Is infinity a reality in your universe? Once one accepts infinity as a reality, he can introduce both definite beginnings, or no beginnings at all, into reasonable discussion. Even a simpleton like me knows that.

If you wish to reject infinity as a reality, then please bear in mind that it is YOU who will wear the label of "anti-rational" in that regard and not creationists.

But you are not altogether anti-rational, or I could not even communicate with you. By and large I consider you and all evolutionists to be more than decent examples of intelligent design, but I don't think my opinion of you has much to do with your concerns.

232 posted on 03/14/2004 7:32:44 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 219 | View Replies]

To: js1138
Obviously the first time isolated tribes saw an airplane they had no frame of reference from which to answer.

It is my prediction that they would NOT assume the airplane built itself without any guidance whatsoever from an intelligent agent. Is that too "anti-rational"? They would not have to be educated in the slightest about what makes them fly, etc.

If it we're me out in the sticks I'd ask, "What the hell is THAT?" And if I ever got the chnace to see it up close I'd be asking questions (and picking it apart if the bulder allowed my curiosity to go that far) only to find out, by golly, that it was intelligently designed.

233 posted on 03/14/2004 7:56:29 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Fester Chugabrew
Evolution does not assist in organizing facts and data. It makes unnecessary assumptions once the data has already been organized

In the case of Linnaeus, the *fact* of evolution jumped out at him because he organized the data- after he had organized all known life, he began to doubt that species are immutable.

Remember that Darwin came up withnatural selection - it was already known that some sort of evolution had taken place, and other scientists and scholars like Lamarck had come up with theories. Only Darwin's has survived all tests.

234 posted on 03/14/2004 8:47:45 PM PST by Virginia-American
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: edsheppa
Also, it is off in one regard. There should be an analysis of prior critical examination wrt outcomes. Every one on the "five aspects" have been considered extensively but there is no consideration of the resulting scientific consensus and the reasoning behind it.

But you can't do that and teach ID/creationism (persuasively). This is exactly what the choice comes down to.

235 posted on 03/14/2004 9:00:28 PM PST by Stultis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Fester Chugabrew
Give me 100 years, a good microscope, and some ordinary facts about chemistry and I'll show you how much in the way of facts and data can be gathered without the slightest deference or reference to evolution.

The facts would force you to invent evolution. There's just no way around it.

236 posted on 03/14/2004 9:07:38 PM PST by Virginia-American
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Thanks for the ping!
237 posted on 03/14/2004 10:07:53 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro; longshadow; PatrickHenry
The dog ate it. I wasn't there and you can't prove it. somebody must have stolen my password.
238 posted on 03/14/2004 10:15:21 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 225 | View Replies]

To: js1138
The dog ate it. I wasn't there and you can't prove it. somebody must have stolen my password.

Yes. And you had a flat tire, you were suffering from a hangover, you must have been distracted by noise, you have bladder trouble, your computer crashed, the bathroom plumbing isn't working, and your lawyers have advised you not to discuss the matter.

239 posted on 03/15/2004 3:43:16 AM PST by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: Fester Chugabrew
If you wish to reject infinity as a reality, then please bear in mind that it is YOU who will wear the label of "anti-rational" in that regard and not creationists.

As long as "infinity" remains an abstract rather than concrete (i.e., with evidence) concept, it is not rational to invoke it scientific research.

240 posted on 03/15/2004 3:53:58 AM PST by Junior (No animals were harmed in the making of this post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 232 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 801-803 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson