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Charles Darwin Knew: Science and Freedom
BreakPoint with Charles Colson | 1 Mar 04 | Charles Colson

Posted on 03/01/2004 1:02:07 PM PST by Mr. Silverback

Almost 150 years ago, Charles Darwin knew something that the scientific establishment seems to have forgotten -- something that is being endangered today in the state of Ohio.

In Ohio, high school science students are at risk of being told that they are not allowed to discuss questions and problems that scientists themselves openly debate. While most people understand that science is supposed to consider all of the evidence, these students, and their teachers, may be prevented from even looking at the evidence -- evidence already freely available in top science publications.

In late 2002, the Ohio Board of Education adopted science education standards that said students should know "how scientists investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory." The standards did not say that schools should teach intelligent design. They mandate something much milder. According to the standards, students should know that "scientists may disagree about explanations . . . and interpretations of data" -- including the biological evidence used to support evolutionary theory. If that sounds like basic intellectual freedom, that's because it is.

The Ohio Department of Education has responded by implementing this policy through the development of an innovative curriculum that allows students to evaluate both the strengths and the weaknesses of Darwinian evolution.

And that has the American scientific establishment up in arms. Some groups are pressuring the Ohio Board to reverse its decision. The president of the National Academy of Sciences has denounced the "Critical Analysis" lesson -- even though it does nothing more than report criticisms of evolutionary theory that are readily available in scientific literature.

Hard as it may be to believe, prominent scientists want to censor what high school students can read and discuss. It's a story that is upside-down, and it's outrageous. Organizations like the National Academy of Sciences and others that are supposed to advance science are doing their best to suppress scientific information and stop discussion.

Debates about whether natural selection can generate fundamentally new forms of life, or whether the fossil record supports Darwin's picture of the history of life, would be off-limits. It's a bizarre case of scientists against "critical analysis."

And the irony of all of this is that this was not Charles Darwin's approach. He stated his belief in the ORIGIN OF SPECIES: "A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question." Darwin knew that objective science demands free and open inquiry, and while I disagree with Darwin on many things, on this he was absolutely right. And I say what's good enough for scientists themselves, as they debate how we got here, is good enough for high school students.

Contact us here at BreakPoint (1-877-322-5527) to learn more about this issue and about an intelligent design conference we're co-hosting this June.

The Ohio decision is the leading edge of a wedge breaking open the Darwinist stranglehold on science education in this country. The students in Ohio -- and every other state -- deserve intellectual freedom, and they deserve it now.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: charlescolson; crevolist; education; evolution; scienceeducation
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To: general_re
....you can easily cultivate tens of thousands of generations of paramecia, and never observe a single dead one.

Or, a different TYPE of one......

561 posted on 03/03/2004 7:16:58 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: Elsie
False. Autogamy in paramecia makes them very useful for studying mutagenesis.
562 posted on 03/03/2004 7:18:48 AM PST by general_re (Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant. - Tacitus)
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To: C.J.W.


563 posted on 03/03/2004 7:25:32 AM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: Elsie
I don't think you know what a gene pool is. The smaller the number of individuals of ay given type, the more unlikely would be eiter change or survival.
564 posted on 03/03/2004 7:27:09 AM PST by js1138
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To: Heartlander
Biology currently uses design, engineering, and the Information Theory with genetic research. Robust design and intelligently designed analogies, engineered DNA and reverse engineered DNA, and language information and programming information is associated with DNA. ID is not detrimental to current research as it is actually employed and utilized. Moreover we use our very conscious in these constructs, which we see as intelligent.

Thank you for your response, though I feel that it is somewhat of a non-answer to my challenge. I find that the use of Information theory in genetic research is not the same as showing that ID should be taught in classrooms. It is my impression that this is the main concern that people have with ID supporters, an attempt to legitimize ID theory by comparison with research done by human intelligence. I find it a specious argument, mostly as there is no way to quantify such a comparison. This is the crux of my (and many others) problems with ID, it asks a lot of questions, but then peters out when it tries to answer them in a scientific manner. It is also why I don't think it should be in a scientific classroom. It may belong there someday, but that day has still not come.

So what does ID bring to the table and what predictions does it offer science?

· Transposable LINE-1 (junk) actually serves a purpose.

· Functional parts will be reused in unrelated species.

· Intelligent and purposeful information will be found in DNA (encoded information).

· Mindlessness cannot create consciousness.

· Absolutes exist beyond mankind.

ID does make a number of predictions, that much I was aware of, especially 3-5 on your list. However, those hypotheses are not particularly easy in a manner consistent with the scientific method. Sure, people talk about irreducible complexity, but I still have yet to see it in testable terms. You wouldn't happen to have links to scientific research that is ongoing on these predictions?

Perhaps we can go over the anthropic principle discussion at a later time...I don't want this to get too long.

565 posted on 03/03/2004 7:44:33 AM PST by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: steve-b
Then how, in your opinion, did the process of natural selection start, within a condition of space and time without it?

566 posted on 03/03/2004 7:53:58 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: C.J.W.
The notion that everything must be made to fit a naturalistic explanation is false. There are many (pseudo)scientists whose version of science is to make all observations fit a naturalistic explanation, no matter what systematic thought applied to observations actually show.

Actually, it is science. As has been posted here many times, assuming a supreme deity is not a very scientific proposition. Science must assume naturalistic explanations or it crosses into other disciplines. End of story.

True scientists believe that science is the pursuit of the truth, not just the pursuit of naturalistic explanation. Failing to admit this leads some to a pseudo-science like evolutionism. It is especially ironic when those who believe that science is the pursuit of naturalistic explanations rather than pursuit of the truth make the argument: "Science shows us that everything has a naturalistic explanation!" And they act as if it surprising that they have found all that they are willing to look for or see. There are none so blind as those who will not see, as they say. They had already defined science to show what they wanted to see a priori to actually practicing science.

Your response is quite a ramble. Other than the initial statement, you aren't making much of a point. Science certainly can never be a pursuit of THE truth, only a form of the truth. There is no such thing as an exact science, after all, all colloquialisms aside.

567 posted on 03/03/2004 7:54:01 AM PST by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: steve-b
So, you still believe that astronomy, being incapable of experimental testing, is not a science.

Don't be a moron - I never many any such claim. You are either sloppy, delusional, or a liar.

568 posted on 03/03/2004 7:56:51 AM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: steve-b
If you aren't claiming, at least implicitly, that only the latter can provide definitive support for a theory, there is no reason other than water-muddying to bring up the distinction at all.

Stop being a moron. The debate was about repeatable experiments. I made no comment about "definitive support for a theory". Keep up.

569 posted on 03/03/2004 7:59:19 AM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: steve-b
This statement is clearly irrelevant without the implicit assertion that only a "repeatable experiment" is an acceptable form of evidence for a scientific theory. That assertion has been cut to ribbons. Ergo, this statement is irrelevant. QED

You are delusional. The debate was about repeatable experiments - this "implicit assertion" (aka bullsh*t) exists only in your mind.

570 posted on 03/03/2004 8:02:29 AM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: steve-b
Ask the ghost of Perceval Lowell what that does to your credibility....

Run along - you clearly don't understand what we were debating.

571 posted on 03/03/2004 8:03:43 AM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: steve-b
William Terrell: The process of natural selection is claimed to have started by blind chance.

steve-b: No, it isn't, and to repeat this assertion is as dishonest as referring to the "Bush Recession" after being informed that the economy started heading south in mid-2000.

So our little buddy steve-b is now claiming natural selection did not start by blind chance. So, steve-b, if not "blind chance" than what? (this ought to good...)

572 posted on 03/03/2004 8:11:41 AM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: Last Visible Dog
(this ought to good...)

(this ought to BE good...)

573 posted on 03/03/2004 8:12:46 AM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: balrog666
Me: Are you certain of that definition?
You: It's an extremely useful and descriptive connotation. Yes, but are you certain?
574 posted on 03/03/2004 8:40:15 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
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To: js1138
The gene pool could use a lifeguard
575 posted on 03/03/2004 9:42:01 AM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: Mr. Silverback
Postin error! please ignore post 574 and read this.

Me: Are you certain of that definition?
You: It's an extremely useful and descriptive connotation.

Are you certain that it's an extremely useful and descriptive connotation?

576 posted on 03/03/2004 10:41:54 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
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To: Elsie
[Elsie:] The very same 'small gene pool' that "E" types claim has started each and every change in the line, that we find in today's 'modern' animals.

[Ichneumon:] Where did you get that incorrect idea from?

[Elsie:] From 'E's.................. "..a change has occurred that enhances an organisms offspring's surviability" This is, by definition, a 'small gene pool'.

No. You clearly don't understand what a gene pool is. "By definition", a gene pool is:

Evolution is a change in the gene pool of a population over time. A gene is a hereditary unit that can be passed on unaltered for many generations. The gene pool is the set of all genes in a species or population.
-- from Introduction to Evolutionary Biology (which I suggest you read before you attempt more posts on this thread)

The fact that a mutation first occurs in a single individual doesn't magically make the species's gene pool a size of "one". That individual still resides within a larger population, which contains many other genes available for genetic "mix-and-match".

577 posted on 03/03/2004 10:45:25 AM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Mr. Silverback
Me: Are you certain of that definition? You: It's an extremely useful and descriptive connotation. Are you certain that it's an extremely useful and descriptive connotation?

Are you certain that playing with words adds anything to the discussion?

578 posted on 03/03/2004 10:46:25 AM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Ichneumon
You are fighting a hopeless battle here. Elsie thinks of mutations a s hopeful monsters rather than a variation within an existing breeding population. Hence the willful misunderstanding about the alleged lack of mates for the new "type".
579 posted on 03/03/2004 10:54:09 AM PST by js1138
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To: Ichneumon
Are you certain that playing with words adds anything to the discussion?

You may not know me well, but you know me better than that. This is not mere wordplay. I'm making a point. Review posts 168, 175, 187, 191, 204 and 214 for proper context. I promise, they're all short, it should take you less than a minute to read them all.

580 posted on 03/03/2004 11:46:21 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
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