Appeals court ruling favors Terri Schiavo's parents

Boston Glob ^ | 1/13/04 | staff

[codyjacksmom]

Ok, stupid ?. What is a Dr.Laura style name? Thanks, I'm not to bad at all. It sounds like a good thing Jeb got involved.

[LisaFab]

Great news! Please add me to any Terri ping list.

[ruoflaw]

well, I will try and find that testimony again but I thought it said his life

[sweetliberty]

If you are sincere in your request for information, then you have missed a great deal and a search on FR for Terri Schiavo will reveal a tremendous volume of discussion about the matters you bring up, however, I will attempt to address each one briefly:

"I don't understand how it would be murder if the woman has been in a coma for 14 years..."

She is not, and beyond the very beginning of her trauma, she has never been in a coma. This is a media lie.

"isn't it interfering in God's ultimate plan, to artificially keep someone alive like this?"

Interfering with God to feed someone who is unable to feed herself...largely because she was denied therapy? Food is artificially keeping someone alive? I don't think so.

"Doesn't the husband have the right to move on with his life after all this time has passed?"

The "husband" moved on with his life (not to mention with money allocated for HER treatment) quite some time ago. Doesn't it strike you as a considerable conflict of interests for for him to have the say whether she lives or dies and whether she has therapy or not, when he has had more than one mistress, and a couple of bastard children and stands to profit by his wife's death? Doesn't it furthur raise questions in your mind to know that there is evidence that might well reveal that he was the cause of Terri's trauma to begin with, something which will never be discovered if he has his way.

"What value/quality of life is there for Terri like this?"

Who are WE to decide whose life is worth saving? There is no objective evidence that Terri would have wanted this....in fact, quite the opposite, but even if you take the word of the "husband" that she had said she would not want to live hooked to machines (which he "recalled" only years after the fact when the judgement was awarded to him for her care), starving a person to death was not even an option at the time of Terri's "accident" so she could NOT have said she would want that. The change in the law can be directly attributed to one George Felos...attorney for the prosecution Michael Schiavo, who, incidentally, also stands to gain considerably from her death.

"How is this life, when God would have taken her, and will still take her if the tubes are removed?"

How do you know what God would do? The "husband" will not even allow any attempt to be made to feed her.

[tutstar]

This pic was taken some time shortly after Terri's injury. Michael's whole attitude changed after he won the malpractice money. Money which was to be for Terri's care and rehabilitation. Money which once in the bank now goes to cause her death.

I think you've received some good replies. Another point is that Terri is not sick with any disease that could cause her death. Her death would be brought on by starvation due to 'artificial means of sustenance' which many of us did not realize was in our FL Statutes til this case started making the news.

She is under the guardianship of her husband who has broken several requirements under Fl Statutes concerning guardians and he is also guilty of a misdemeanor under Fl law for adultery. Judge Greer overlooked this and has not removed the husband as guardian.

Terri is also due protection under the laws especially since she is disabled.

This article is about some kids (some with feeding tubes) whose teacher helped them make cards for Terri. According to one legal opinion I read persons with feeding tubes who are in otherwise good health are not protected under the current statutes. Whose to say some spiteful ex-spouse might decide one of these kids cost too much to keep alive? http://www.wmbb.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WMBB%2FMGArticle%2FMBB_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031772198741&path=!news!archives

The question of Her husband's attorney is a member of the Hemlock Society.

Here is just one example of our elected officials arrogant attitude toward Terri. Sen King has stated that he wants her to die in another interview. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1075329/posts

The 2nd DCA ruled today on 2 cases you can read the rulings here and see that the courts which have been handling Terri's case have ruled improperly. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1077475/posts?page=22#22

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1077475/posts?page=21#21

Judge Greer also used Dr. Cranford's (chosen by Terri's husband) definition of PVS and not the statute. A judge should go by the law!

We 'medically' intervene all the time if the definitions being applied to Terri were applied to all people. Babies can't feed themselves either.

[MeekOneGOP]

Well, the truth shall set one free ! ...

[supercat]

How is this life, when God would have taken her, and will still take her if the tubes are removed?

I think many people have an image of Terri being hooked up to all sorts of fancy shmantzy machines and whatnot. Actually, a gastrostomy tube is much simpler than that.

Essentially, it simply provides an opening by which food and water can be administered to the stomach without having to be navigated past the somewhat tricky point between the trachea and esophogas. G-tubes are often used for patients who cannot feed themselves--even if they are quite capable of chewing and swallowing food--because tube-feeding can be more convenient for both patient and caregiver, and minimizes the risk of the patient aspirating food or liquid. Normal protocol would call for efforts to be made to give patients food and water by mouth, even if they are receiving nourishment via g-tube, both to minimize atrophy of the appropriate muscles and to provide the patient the gratification of eating; even patients who physically can't eat enough to sustain themselves can get some gratification by eating a little bit and having the rest of their nutrition taken care of by g-tube. Terri's husband-in-name-only, however, has forbidden anyone from making any effort to feed her--even after he had the gastrostomic feedings stopped.

Indeed, I would suggest that this last point should be brought up in things like guardianship hearings (or better yet criminal trials). Take any healthy person and simultaneously forbid them gastrostomic food/hydration and oral food/hydration and they will die within days. That isn't a case of letting a dying person die--that's undertaking a course of action which would kill anyone regardless of health.

BTW, I forget who first said it, but I think much of Terri's case can be summed up thus: Michael is trying to starve Terri not because she's dying, but because she isn't.

[NonValueAdded]

CJM, I concur witb FR-addict's answer. More importantly, it illustrates the amount of disinformation that is out there. I'll bet an impartial survey of people would show a majority saying she is in a coma and hooked up to machines like respirators, etc. I wish Nova or some similar program would present what exactly is a Persistant Vegitative State and similar non-coma conditions. I'd wager the majority of those I mention above would sit bolt upright and say, "whoa, wait a minute here."

The more you know about this case, the more troubling it becomes. Jeb is a good man and I trust his judgement on this. If he is concerned with his level of access to the details, then I'm worried too.

[codyjacksmom]

Thanks NVA for your input. I have to admit that I've been one of the people that has only pictured her in a coma on all kinds of machines. I'm just glad that I have joined FR and can get all this info from fellow FReepers!

[fiesti]

Thank You dear sweet Jesus!!!!!! What a great Friday 13th

[Future Useless Eater]

>>The 2nd District Court of Appeal ruled that Bush's attorneys will be allowed to question witnesses

This is GOOD NEWS indeed!!!

For any newbies to this case... Michael Schiavo's lawyer, Felos, was still saying on TV just 3 weeks ago:

Felos: "Terri has been in a persistent vegetative state for 13 years; She has no consciousness."

But most of Terri's doctors disagree... Here is what her doctor, Patty A Shook wrote in Terri's chart in 1992, (feel free to read it yourself at the bottom of page 2):

Vocalizing when prone in P.T.[physical therapy, she] Occasionally will say "STOP" to nursing during procedures.

And then there is this other doctor from Oct. 2002...

From "Terri Big Eyes" video available at www.terrisfight.org

Terri starts out apparently asleep. A doctor wakes her to start his tests.

Doctor: Terri. Open your eyes up...

Terri: (Startled at hearing her name. She starts moving her mouth and fluttering her eyes, like a person who is just waking up)

Doctor: Open your eyes, Terri open your eyes

Terri: (slowly at first, Terri struggles to open her eyes, then turns toward the doctor, and opens her eyes a normal amount)

Doctor: There you go, good.

Terri: (then, either to show off(?) or wanting to perform well, she leans further forward toward the doctor, looks straight at him and opens her eyes as WIDE AS SHE CAN. Note the WRINKLES ACROSS HER FOREHEAD caused by her also RAISING HER EYEBROWS as high as possible )

Doctor: [now obviously impressed] GOOD!! GOOD JOB! GOOD JOB YOUNG LADY! Good Job.

[Theodore R.]

The two Democrats who urged the killing of poor Terri were Richard A. Gephardt, D-MO, and Howard Dean, D-VT. Gephardt has already exited the race, and Dean is himself on self-required "life support." Of course, the only Democrat who defended Terri's right to live was Joseph Lieberman, D-CT, and he is out of the running too. I would think that John Kerry, when he returns to FL, will speak out against Terri. Kerry might even offer to come remove the feeding tube himself to show his commitment to "end of life" choices.

[Theodore R.]

Michael's whole attitude changed after he won the malpractice money.

As the old adage goes, "MONEY TALKS," and Schiavo wants money. He has already starved and dehydrated his poor PA parents.

[Theodore R.]

I believe that Baird will take the corrective directive that he received from the appeals court with great outrage and deep-seated anger. This ruling will make him all the more determined to side with Schiavo-Felos-Greer every single time that he can. Perhaps the appeals court will yet remove Baird from the case, for he is too biased to sit in judgement of anyone, if you ask me. Baird is the textbook case of a judge who has decided the outcome of a case without having the hearing.

[dandelion]

Thanks be to God, who hears our cries for help!

[livius]

Thank you for your comments. I think we all learn things on FR!

BTW, I read an account of a young woman who had been in a PVS for several months and has now recovered. She had actually regained her ability to process things, but not to communicate. She said the most horrible thing happened one time when she was beating a spoon on her bed to get the nurses to come in, and one came and said, "Oh, it's just an involuntary gesture, they do that all the time."

Terri may never get better after all these years, during which her husband denied her therapy, but I suspect that she is well aware of what's going on. And she has people who are willing to care for her, including our Governor, Jeb Bush!

[Salvation]

Great news! Now if they can just keep going!

[FR_addict]

You should read what Michael did when Terri first collapsed. We know some of it because the brother came rushing over.

He didn't call the paramedics. He call Terri's father. The father called for help. He also called Terri's brother who lived in the same apartment complex and rushed over. He found Michael sitting on the couch, not even attempting to help Terri.

There's so much to remember about this case. Michael had her rings melted down into some jewelry for himself. He was going to have her cremated so an autopsy couldn't be done after he starved her to death.

There was a bone scan performed (I believe this was a year after the original collapse) that was hidden from Terri's family. There was evidence that Terri had suffered some sort of trauma. This only came to light because Micahel's attorney accidently gave it to the Schindler's when he was turning over some other information to her.

At least one of the judges in this case has ties to the hospices in the area.

I just can't remember everything, but there are excellent summaries you will find on Terri through out the threads.

[JulieRNR21]

Good news......Thanks be to God!

Fight for Terri's Life......BUMP

[Ohioan from Florida]

Thank you so much for the ping!!

What glorious news!!

Thank you, Lord!!