Race only skin deep - S.J. STUDENTS DISCOVER GENETIC LINK

Mercury News ^ | Mon, Feb. 09, 2004 | Katherine Corcoran

[CobaltBlue]

More than half of the class at San Jose's Piedmont Hills High School, students from numerous racial and ethnic backgrounds, are linked in their DNA to the same ancestor, born more than 100,000 years ago in central China or Taiwan.

[Modernman]

If Persian and Siamese cats aren't different, then there's no reason why a male Persian cat couldn't mate with a female Persian cat and produce a Siamese offspring.

But, as with humans, we have decided to classify Persians and Siamese as different breeds of cat. It's a purely arbitrary distinction based on certain cosmetic expressions of genetics. The cats don't actually see the distinction, which leads to the conclusion that there is no real difference. Though, a house cat certainly would see a difference between itself and a lynx.

It's not to assert that one is better than the other, just that they are genetically distinct. That's simply a fact.

They're genetically distinct in some superficial ways, granted. However, I'm brown-haired, brown-eyed while my fiance is red-haired, blue-eyed. She has a very fair compexion while I'm more Mediterranean. There's certainly a lot of genetic distinction there. All we have in common, cosmetically speaking, is skin-color that is arbitrarily considered "white."

If the Japanese had settled England, it would today have an Oriental culture.

Even if everyone else in Europe had remained white?

[CobaltBlue]

Mitochondrial "Eve" and Y-chromosome "Adam" are not the Biblical Adam and Eve, so don't worry about how it all fits into Genesis.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Christians, and particularly creationists, have been saying this for centuries.

Saying that we're all related to an Chinese ancestor that lived 100,000 years ago?

[Markofhumanfeet]

Amen, seems like that pesky little bible knows everything

Acts 17:26

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;"

[Agnes Heep]

Many parts of Asia are much warmer than Europe, so I'm not sure if this holds up.

Very true, but remember, over the course of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of years, peoples have migrated.

Take a look at the South American Indians--assuming that all the Indians of the Americas originated from Asia, it seems apparent that those tribes have undergone a remarkable degree of adaptation that has given them characteristics that are less Mongoloid and more Negroid.

[spetznaz]

LOL ....typical reaction when someone cannot refudiate points using factual information. I gave mine, and negated your prior affirmations. And all you have to say about it is :You're very wrong, and I think you need to do a little more research on the human genome project.

LOL ...that is tantamount to what a 3rd grader would say. Deny any material that is contrary to his belief, and give no opposing viewpoints apart from a juvenile 'you are wrong and you need to study harder.' Ha!

As for your other statement, namely:As for nurturing and environment, try using those things to produce a black offspring from white parents, or vice-versa. If you can pull that off, I'll concede this debate., all i have to tell you is you did not read the whole post. If you were to read till the end you would ahve noted the genetic material i included.

Anyways others will read that post ....others who have the acumen to grasp facts and not waste time posting stuff like:You're very wrong, and I think you need to do a little more research on the human genome project without an iota of alternative factual info.

[Ichneumon]

Since there's no such thing as race, it won't make a difference if we go back to the kind of immigration we had before 1964.

Does not follow, since there's still the problem of how quickly diverse cultures can be melded without producing balkanization, not to mention the problems of a ballooning population being absorbed into the economy (workforce, housing market, etc.)

[Doctor Stochastic]

There can also be more than one common ancestor. Being "least far back" is one of the criteria for the 200,000 years ago and 60,000 years ago Eve and Adam that you mentioned.

[Ichneumon]

By definition, one race should not be able to breed with another

"By definition", you're wrong on that point.

I think you're confusing "race" with "species".

[Chris Talk]

I am well aware of that. My comment was just this, that if we are all descended from a "mitochondrial eve" who lived x years ago, then we are also descended from her FATHER, who lived some x+20 years ago.

Similarly, if we are all descended from a "genetic Adam" who lived 60M years ago, we are also all descended from his MOTHER, who lived just 60000+20 or so years ago, and in one swoop you get the two sexes reduced to the same number of years ago.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

None of which invalidates my original point, which is that the story at the head of this thread is trivial, tautological, and hogwash.

[puroresu]

#####But, as with humans, we have decided to classify Persians and Siamese as different breeds of cat. It's a purely arbitrary distinction based on certain cosmetic expressions of genetics. The cats don't actually see the distinction, which leads to the conclusion that there is no real difference. Though, a house cat certainly would see a difference between itself and a lynx.#####


Sure! But Persian and Siamese **DO** exist as separate breeds. They can be genetically identified by their DNA. If you want to argue that they are morally equal or anything along those lines, I won't argue with you because my goal isn't to label one race, or cat breed, as better than another. Just to note that those breeds do exist, and so do different human races.


#####They're genetically distinct in some superficial ways, granted. However, I'm brown-haired, brown-eyed while my fiance is red-haired, blue-eyed. She has a very fair compexion while I'm more Mediterranean. There's certainly a lot of genetic distinction there. All we have in common, cosmetically speaking, is skin-color that is arbitrarily considered "white."#####

Yes, and we all are unique in our own way!

#####Even if everyone else in Europe had remained white?#####

Good point! Of course it's possible the Japanese in England would have warred with other white European nations and the victor would have imposed their culture on the loser, whomever that may have been! :-)

[spetznaz]

But if race was just a myth, then specific breeds of cats and dogs would be impossible to maintain.

LOL ....that is also funny. The reason those breeds are, what word did you use, 'maintained,' is because stringent breeding is carried out. IT is the same thing in cock breeding, pigeon breeding (you should check that one out ...so many types have been bred, including some with vivid plummage, twisted beaks, even some that cannot fly), and so on! Basically the breeders (be they dog, cat, horse, pigeon) mate those animals with traits they desire.

To put it simply if i take Shaquille ONeal, and make him reproduce with a tall WNBA player, their offspring will most probably be tall. Now, if i mate that child with the offspring of Michael Jordan and another WNBA player, and i do the same for let's say 3 to 4 generations, i will start to consistently get a remarkably tall child. That is what they do for dogs, pigeons etc. The only problem with humans is sexual maturity takes too long.

Actually the best specimen for such a study is the Drosophila fly, which matures sexually very quickly and hence can have very many generations very quickly.

Negated!

[Ichneumon]

Amen, seems like that pesky little bible knows everything

Ooh, yeah, like it was hard for ancient man to notice that humans were all of a kind, and distinct from other species.

It's not like that's a profound observation.

[Doctor Stochastic]

And if you took Michael Jordan, Danny Devito, Shaquille ONeal, and Michaeal J. Fox, and let them walk down the street, they would spell Lili. (Thanks to Jay Leno, I think.)

[mikegi]

It is basically a pseudo-science .....on the same level as the whole 'once race is more intelligent than another B.S. In both cases the prevalent factor is NURTURING and ENVIRONMENT , with intelligence being due to the first and 'race' being due to eons of the second.

Why the clean separation between the two? Can you explain to me why the brain is static under environmental pressure?

[puroresu]

I read your genetic ramblings, and you in no way noted any reason for assuming that the idea of race is unsupported by science. You blew it all off as nurture and environment.

Unless you can produce different genetic offspring from parents via nurture and environment, your ramblings were pointless.

Either our heritage is genetic or it isn't. If it is, then that would explain why there aren't millions of black babies being born to Japanese parents in Tokyo, or millions of blonds being born to black parents in Nairobi.

It would explain why two pedigreed Collies don't mate and produce a Poodle.

Ramble all you want.

[CobaltBlue]

It is true that we are descended from MitoEve's dad, but we can't "see" his genes when we test the mitochondrial DNA. Nor can we "see" MitoAdam's mother's DNA when we test the Y-chromosome DNA.

Does that matter? Well, to me it does. One of my hobbies is geneaology. I am casting around for the best DNA lab for ancestry testing. I intend to pay for my mom and dad both to have mitochondrial DNA testing, and my dad to have Y-Chromosome DNA testing. Unfortunately, that will only provide very limited info - of all possible ancestry lines, it will give exactly three.

Mother to grandmother to greatgrandmother to greatgreatgrandmother, etc.

Father to grandfather to greatgrandfather to greatgreatfather, etc.

Father to grandmother to greatgrandmother to greatgrandmother, etc.

Going backwards in time to the same great,great,great,great,great,great ..... greatgrandmother or grandfather may seem boring to you, but exciting to me. So many lines seemingly got "lost" along the way but probably still survive in the non-mito and non-Y DNA.

[puroresu]

######LOL ....that is also funny. The reason those breeds are, what word did you use, 'maintained,' is because stringent breeding is carried out. IT is the same thing in cock breeding, pigeon breeding (you should check that one out ...so many types have been bred, including some with vivid plummage, twisted beaks, even some that cannot fly), and so on! Basically the breeders (be they dog, cat, horse, pigeon) mate those animals with traits they desire.######

And what do you think I meant by "maintained"? Are you blind or can you not understand English?



#####To put it simply if i take Shaquille ONeal, and make him reproduce with a tall WNBA player, their offspring will most probably be tall. Now, if i mate that child with the offspring of Michael Jordan and another WNBA player, and i do the same for let's say 3 to 4 generations, i will start to consistently get a remarkably tall child. That is what they do for dogs, pigeons etc. The only problem with humans is sexual maturity takes too long.#####

Exactly! So much for nurture and environment.


#####Actually the best specimen for such a study is the Drosophila fly, which matures sexually very quickly and hence can have very many generations very quickly.#####

Generations of what? Perhaps we can follow your illusion and nurture the offspring into something else.

#####Negated!#####


Whatever you say, Einstein.

[Age of Reason]

If I remember correctly, the 1964 immigration act was designed to increase America's racial diversity--NOT to increase America's cultural diversity.

But since we now learn there is no such thing as race, we no longer need the changes wrought by that act.

Likewise, we no longer need the plethora of programs designed to give preferences of any kind based on race.