[Chris Talk]

I am well aware of that. My comment was just this, that if we are all descended from a "mitochondrial eve" who lived x years ago, then we are also descended from her FATHER, who lived some x+20 years ago.

Similarly, if we are all descended from a "genetic Adam" who lived 60M years ago, we are also all descended from his MOTHER, who lived just 60000+20 or so years ago, and in one swoop you get the two sexes reduced to the same number of years ago.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

None of which invalidates my original point, which is that the story at the head of this thread is trivial, tautological, and hogwash.

[CobaltBlue]

It is true that we are descended from MitoEve's dad, but we can't "see" his genes when we test the mitochondrial DNA. Nor can we "see" MitoAdam's mother's DNA when we test the Y-chromosome DNA.

Does that matter? Well, to me it does. One of my hobbies is geneaology. I am casting around for the best DNA lab for ancestry testing. I intend to pay for my mom and dad both to have mitochondrial DNA testing, and my dad to have Y-Chromosome DNA testing. Unfortunately, that will only provide very limited info - of all possible ancestry lines, it will give exactly three.

Mother to grandmother to greatgrandmother to greatgreatgrandmother, etc.

Father to grandfather to greatgrandfather to greatgreatfather, etc.

Father to grandmother to greatgrandmother to greatgrandmother, etc.

Going backwards in time to the same great,great,great,great,great,great ..... greatgrandmother or grandfather may seem boring to you, but exciting to me. So many lines seemingly got "lost" along the way but probably still survive in the non-mito and non-Y DNA.

[Ichneumon]

I am well aware of that. My comment was just this, that if we are all descended from a "mitochondrial eve" who lived x years ago, then we are also descended from her FATHER, who lived some x+20 years ago.

Yes, but not in the same sense -- he would not be the "mitochondrial adam".

Similarly, if we are all descended from a "genetic Adam" who lived 60M years ago, we are also all descended from his MOTHER, who lived just 60000+20 or so years ago, and in one swoop you get the two sexes reduced to the same number of years ago.

"Similarly", this misses the point again -- his mother would not be the "genetic Eve" (or more accurately, the "Y-genetic Eve").

and in one swoop you get the two sexes reduced to the same number of years ago.

No, you don't.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

Too elementary, unfortunately. It fails to take into account the more subtle details of what exactly is, and is not, implied in the terms "mitochondrial Eve" and "Y-genetic Adam".

For example, while the Y-genetic "Adam" existed around 60,000 years ago, meaning that all patrilineal lines (i.e., your father's father's father's etc.) for all humans eventually trace through that one male individual, this does *NOT* mean that other males of the same generation are not *also* ancestral to some or all humans (although it *does* mean that the specific "marker" section of their Y-chromosomes were eventually lost in the genetic shuffle).

*NOR* does it mean that the Y-genetic "Adam"'s mother was the sole female ancestor, in any sense, of all modern humans. In fact, the evidence indicating that the "mitochondrial Eve" is 140,000 years older than this "Adam" proves that "Adam's mother" was indeed certainly *not* the sole contributor to everyone's mitochondria.

Thus, it's quite incorrect to conclude that "in one swoop you get the two sexes reduced to the same number of years ago."

It's even incorrect to conclude that you get *one* sex "reduced", since other males of "Adam's" generation almost certainly contributed their DNA (of other types) to the modern gene pool as well.

This also means that in every aspect these genetic discoveries are, when properly understood, no comfort for literalist creationists. Quite the contrary.

The following is worth reading on this issue: What, if anything, is a Mitochondrial Eve?.