Posted on 10/01/2002 11:16:00 PM PDT by SheLion
The movement to get the Dallas City Council to pass a city ordinance to make ALL establishments 100% smoke free is gaining momentum. They advocate preventing a bar or restaurant owner to make his or her own decision about giving a choice to the customer. They advocate putting into LAW that you can't... CAN NOT... smoke anywhere in the City of Dallas. "Well, how about the cigar bar in Del Frisco's after a big steak dinner?"
Nope. In fact if they get this passed, they might come back and try to get a law passed that we can't eat a big steak dinner because they found a study that suggests that the side-effects of other people enjoying a steak is bad for "the children".
In fact, there is no stopping a group of people organizing, coming up with their own "research", and lobbying to take our rights away because they don't like what others do.
I know that sounds ridiculous and that is why no normal citizen, who enjoys the rights that people before us fought and died for, ever thinks that anything as absurd as a law to take away any of those rights could be even considered as serious. That is where we have been wrong... dead wrong. It seems that advocates share a certain trait with politicians: they both feel the need to get "involved" with the issue of guiding our citizenry. In the meantime, our citizenry is comfortable knowing that our Constitution is protecting us so we can go about our daily lives working and enjoying life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Well, guess what? We were wrong.
There is a group in Dallas that is working hard to "ban" smoking in any establishment in the city limits.
They contend a restaurant owner has no business making a decision about his or her own policies. They think that the local government should decide what type of customers they should try to attract. This group has even stooped to the over-done, we-should-do-it-for-the-children-and-if-you-disagree-with-that-you-hate-children tactic.
They wonder why when they are with their "children" (because after all, they are pro-family... aren't you?) and someone in a restaurant lights up, the government isn't there to protect the health of their family. They wonder why they are expected to make a decision not to go to that restaurant instead of making everyone around them change so they don't have to.
To find the wisdom in our system, it is often necessary to read what our leaders said a long time ago. It was Abraham Lincoln that had words for this situation:
"Those who deny freedom for others deserve it not for themselves".
Let me be clear. I do not smoke cigarettes. They are nasty and dangerous. There are probably many chemicals and poisons that are let out into the air by smoking. But I reserve the right to smoke one day, if I want to. I won't smoke at your church, school, or in your government building. If you don't allow it in your home, I will totally respect that. I won't smoke in your car, or even near you when I can... I am not rude. However, when I choose a restaurant that wants me as a customer so much as to have a section for me, and you want to go there too (because the food and service are great), we have both made a decision based on personal freedom. Since you have made that choice, why is it my fault that you aren't comfortable? Why do you insist that city government get involved to make sure your dining experience is more pleasant? If you walk by a club and the rap music from inside is so loud that it seems offensive, will you go inside? No, of course not, and you wouldn't run to the city council wanting a law against rap music.
You simply wouldn't go. Get it?
I am not even going to start in on the junk science and so-called "surveys" presented as "irrefutable fact" by this poster group for political correctness. I will give you the link to the web site. Twenty years ago this web site would have made a great satirical magazine. It would have shown, in a ironic way, how fanatics try to push their agenda using any scare tactic they can. Sadly, this is not satire. It is a group that will not be content until others behave the way they think they should. It is time for common sense to replace political correctness.
It is time that people realize a perfect world is not formed by laws.
Here is the web site. Enjoy. http://smokefreedallas.org/
Come yourself to tell me I can't have smoking in my business place. Don't be a coward, come yourself. Hint, the second amendment was written with guys like you in mind.
Nothing, I support this. However, NY changed the issue. The restaurants have chosen to go non-smoking provided their is a state wide ban to protect them. Therefore, these private property owners have made their decision and its not favorable to smokers.
You have assumed again. I am agreeing with you that if you don't clean your restaurant, don't keep the vermin away, serve spoiled meat, don't wash your hands after using the bathroom and then preparing, or serving, food that there IS proof of harm in those things. It can be, and has been, proven. There are no dissenting scientific views on these things.
Cite me the scientific study that has not been debunked, thrown out of court, or used cherry picked data that Environmental Tobacco Smoke harms anyone that does not have a pre-existing medical condition.
I'm willing to bet that I can find a study that says it doesn't for every study you find that says it does.
THAT is lack of proof of harm.
Where did you see this? Did I miss something THAT big in this story?
Thanks!
"To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws." -- John Adams
Let's edit that for accuracy:
Some restaurants have chosen to go non-smoking, provided they can also make this decision for their competitors who still cater to the wishes of the marketplace.
I try to keep everyone on topic.
It's hard sometimes.
I don't know what his agenda is but I'm beginning to suspect.
"except in private self-defense".
I would be happy to defend my self against you ordering me what to do on my own property. Cowards never come alone though, they send hired thugs.
LOL,, you new around here pardner?
Not THAT new but I haven't run into Roscoe that much.
I get the feeling he is a regular on the WOD threads. I've stated my opinion on that topic and normally don't mess around much on them.
To which you replied:
Nothing, I support this. However, NY changed the issue. The restaurants have chosen to go non-smoking provided their is a state wide ban to protect them. Therefore, these private property owners have made their decision and its not favorable to smokers.
I support the decision of any restaurant owner making their business a non-smoking establishment. I do not support the state government making this same decision for all restaurant owners in the state. If the state government steps in and makes law on this subject, then it is not the private property owners who have made their decision -- to the conrtary the state government has made it for them to the exclusion of any other decision the restaurant owner may have made.
A statewide ban on tobacco smoke does not protect non-smoking establishments, it simply makes criminals out of any restaurant owner who allows someone to light a cigarette. This is the free market?
Some people have all the luck
I get the feeling he is a regular on the WOD threads. I've stated my opinion on that topic and normally don't mess around much on them.
He is a regular anywhere people expound the principles of individual rights. He is opposed. He favors the primacy of the state and he abhors freedom loving people.
He seems to have slinked away. He betrayed his real beliefs again.
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