“Attack on America” Not to Be Linked to End-time Bible Prophecy!

The Preterist Homepage ^ | Unknown | Ken Davies

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

Attack on America” Not to Be Linked to End-time Bible Prophecy! These Are Not the “Last Days”! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (INDIANAPOLIS) - Christian evangelical endsayers are at it again and in a big way. Last week’s attack on America “is the beginning of the end,” they are saying. But, once again, they will be proven wrong! Unfortunately, their popular, gloom-and-doom, and “it’s-inevitable” message is destructive and counterproductive to U.S. efforts to fight terrorism. Their end-time scenario plays right into the hands of terrorists and incites hatred. Hal Lindsey said on TBN’s Praise the Lord program last Thursday [9/13/01] that U.S. efforts “will [only] delay the ultimate judgment of America. . . . we have to slip from power.” Best-selling author, John Noe (pronounced No-ee), and John Anderson, video producer and talk show host of the syndicated radio program Voice of Reason, condemn the role popular end-time interpretation of Bible prophecy has played and is playing in the unfolding of these tragic and cowardly events. “It is time to wake up to Biblical fact, not fiction, and re-evaluate this perverse misuse of past and precisely-fulfilled Scripture,” they contend. Noe’s award-winning book, Beyond the End Times, Scripturally and historically documents how the “last days” were confined to a 1st century timeframe and details how the fulfillment of all end-time Bible prophecy took place exactly as expected. Noe is an evangelical scholar who is challenging the doom-saying trend with solid substance. He is a Ph.D. in Theology candidate, an active member of the Evangelical Theological Society, and President of the Prophecy Reformation Institute. He has been featured on numerous media programs including Larry King Live and The 700 Club. Anderson is an experienced radio talk show host, a frequent guest on other national programs, and President of Lighthouse World Ministries. His just-released, 45-minute video, The Last Days, offers irrefutable evidence why modern-day end-time pundits like Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack Van Impe, and Pat Robertson are dead wrong, why our world is never going to end, and more. In stark contrast to the endsayers, Noe and Anderson are voicing a message of non-compromised hope and wholehearted Scriptural support for President Bush and our country’s positive efforts and long-term motivation to rid the world of this evil.

[Texas Yellow Rose]

	YES, my point exactly! "Luke 17 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 2 Peter 2 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; "
... just throwing out some thoughts here... ...they did eat (what?) they did drink (what?) they married wives (who?), they were given in marriage (who?) and the flood came and destroyed them all (who?).  Reminds me of this section of 2 Peter:  "Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;" Conintuing with 2 Peter 2 Peter 2:12-22, "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, (Noah was "Perfect =  08549 tamiym {taw-meem'}.   Translated as "without blemish" 44 times KJV) sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

[jude24]

That sounds rather susupiciously like the doctrine of the Total depravity of man!

:-)

[RnMomof7]

That sounds rather susupiciously like the doctrine of the Total depravity of man! :-)

Ya think ??? ;>)

[RnMomof7]

A living waters Amen sister!

[kansas_goat_roper]

So what you are saying is that Christ returned in 70 A.D.?

Are you a preterist?

KS_Goat_Roper

[PeaceBeWithYou]

I have studied the Preterist views, I believe I can answer your questions.

(Note that this was the "end of the age" or covenant(old testament) that was being discussed here and also note that the second coming is tied to these events.)

Matthew 24:1-2: This was fulfilled literally in AD70 when the Romans under Titus, completely destroyed Jerusalem and the temple buildings. Stones were even pried apart to collect the gold leaf that melted from the roof when the temple was set on fire. (from excavationary evidence in 1968.)

Verses 3-8 This was refering to the time to come when the Emperors of Rome mainly Nero(AD58-68), Galba(AD68-69) Otho(AD69Jan.-April) Vitellius(AD69 April-December), Vespasian(AD69-79),Titus(AD71-79 as associate emperor, AD79-81 as emperor), and Domitian(AD81-96).. all usurped the title of Lord to themselves and enforced it. The Roman Empire became very wicked and corrupt at this time, it struggled to keep the lands it had conquered within the Empire, while suffering with corrupt leadership.

Verses 9-15: Refers to the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman authorities.(Then you will be turned over to be persecuted and put to death.) The turning away, the appearance of false prophets, the trials of Christians in Roman courts(The gospel of the Kingdom preached as testimony to all nations.) The symbol of the Roman Empire placed in the holy place in Jerusalem.(The "abomination that causes distruction" spoken of by Daniel placed in the temple.)

Verses 16-22: The fall and exodus from Jerusalem.

Verses 23-26: Warning to stay in hiding even if word comes of the second coming.

Verses 27-30: The obviousness of his coming to all.

Verse 31: The gathering of the elect.

Verse 32-33: Summation of the warning.

Verses 34-35 Affirmation that Jesus is speaking the truth, that this generation is when these things are to occur, and that his word will survive the end of the age.

Of note also is that with the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, the records that were stored within, were also destroyed. With the gathering of the elect anyone that would pass on that he had returned, wouldn't be around to tell us so. But because Jesus said that his words would survive the destruction, we know that it happened just as described. This doesn't let us off the hook so to speak, as we still must face the judgement after our death, or at the end of time, whichever occurs first. Also of consideration is that there could be a third coming, but very few Preterist feel that way.

That's the Preterist view as I understand it. If I botched it up, please feel free to correct me.(set your flamer to it's lowest setting, please.);-)

[2sheep]

A thought: What was going on in Noah's day?

One thing clear from Noah's day is that the world was so sinful that only 8 souls were saved, so if we look at the endtimes we see that truly few there be that find it will apply.  Elsewhere the scripture says that many [polus=most] would be deceived and the broad way that leads to destruction is wide and the narrow gate is strait [difficult, not straight] that leads to eternal life.. 

Today there are many false prophets and false teachers running around saying millions are going to be saved and there is going to be a great revival, which are both false doctrines.  They seek unity when there can be no unity without holiness and they seek tolerance and compromise in the ecumenical lukewarm middle.  Christians have become too nice and have played right into the hands of the spirit of the antichrist.  God has always said "pick sides" and requires that we be hot or cold or not.  We are to be salty and if the salt loses its savor, it is to be cast out.  The Hebrew word for "utterly" is charam which is used to mean either "utterly devoted" or "utterly destroyed."  That is awesome to contemplate.

"utterly"
2763. charam
charam khaw-ram'

a primitive root; to seclude; specifically (by a ban) to devote to
religious uses (especially destruction); physical and reflexive, to
be blunt as to the nose:--make accursed, consecrate, (utterly)
destroy, devote, forfeit, have a flat nose, utterly (slay, make
away).

[stemwinder]

Hal Lindsey has made a living out of this heresy for 30 years.

[Jeremiah Jr]

When Yeshua [Jesus] walked through Jerusalem His Father's Temple stood there.

The anti-messiah walks the earth today and his father's temple now stands in Jerusalem.

[Thinkin' Gal]

[shield]

“It is time to wake up to Biblical fact, not fiction, and re-evaluate this perverse misuse of past and precisely-fulfilled Scripture,” they contend.

No doubt the ministers of today have interpreted scriptures especially Revelations so incorrectly you wonder what book they are getting it from.

Noe’s award-winning book, Beyond the End Times, Scripturally and historically documents how the “last days” were confined to a 1st century timeframe and details how the fulfillment of all end-time Bible prophecy took place exactly as expected.

Now this I would disagree with, however, most of Revelations was fullfilled by the 6th century. The last Woe, called the Red Woe is still pending. Also, scripture teaches us NO where there will be one individual as the Anti-Christ, the anti-christ is a system. And all we have to do is look around, the anti-christ system is every where. We are not moving toward a satanic period, however, we are moving into 'The Kingdom Age.'

[Quix]

SOMETIMES I think these characters must be reading a Bible from Mars or Jefferson's or Marx's or Arafat's or Shrillery's . . .

The mysteries about the end puzzles in The Bible may not be layed out with great clarity in terms of sequence, timing. . . but there are some clear mile posts.

Early church era events did not come close to meeting anywhere close to the number of data points events in our era have already met--not to mention the events that are cocked ready to happen meeting even more data points.

In terms of the end of the world that The Bible speaks of, who knows when that is. It's at least after the 1,000 years of peace. But the Bible clearly speaks of a new Heaven and a New earth.

I've often wondered about God sort of burying all our garbage buildings etc. in major earthquakes and volcanoes during the Great Tribulation (7 years) . . . such that the meek inheriting the earth would have a mostly fresh landscape to start over with. . . . some prophetic types insist The Lord has told them to build to last at least a thousand years when they build buildings . . . so what do I know. . . But somewhere along the way, this old globe will have served it's purpose. . . there's some Biblical evidence that even during the 1,000 years of Peace, the sun will not be the major light but God will. . . interesting changes. . . . and what does the Heavens "rolled back like a scroll" mean? Curious. I suspect we'll find out be fore too many years have passed.

We expect people to offer alternative explanations . . . even in God's name. But some things are very plainly stated in the text for those earnestly seeking God and what He IS up to. It seems very PLAIN to me that this is certainly the "end times" spoken of in Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, the "Minor" prophets, Matthew, and Revelation. No one has it all figured out. . . but that doesn't mean nothing is clear. It certainly doesn't mean events of the early Christian era fuliflled it all--what nonsense!

Even non Biblically read peoples of various cultures are saying --UT OH, our generation has stepped in it big time-- something of galactic proportions is afoot, they feel it.

[mlocher]

your are correct. but i can also quote scriptures that state that nobody knows when the second coming of christ is.

i happen to believe that the end times began upon christ's death and ressurection. that is, the end times are now, but being any more specific than that is a waste of time, talent and energy. revelation was written in apocolyptic style to keep the romans at bay. literal translation of revelation only gets you in trouble.

remember, though, that the best time to evangelize is when someone is troubled. the events of 911 have many people thinking that the end is near. (well, yes and no!) but these people tend to be more approachable about jesus' ministry than 3 months ago. so -- let's roll!

[Fiddlstix]

If you're living your life any differently because you think the end times are upon us...isn't there something wrong with that? Just keep your nose clean, lead a good life, help others, and if the end comes, the end comes.

Well Said!

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

1000 is a number used often in the Bible to refer to ifinity. He owns the cattle "on 1000 hills". Why not on the 1001, 1002, 1003rd hill? This is one example. 1000 in prophecy does not equal 1000!

[Let's Roll]

Why does this have to herald the end of times? Why can't it herald - after struggle and sacrifice - the beginning of much better times?

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

"A wicked generation seeks a sign"

Read your Old Testament prophecy and how it was fufilled then. Then learn the history of 70 AD.