Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
OK, I'm going to weigh in on this one..."allowing people to be their own popes"? Where do you get that? That's not part of Protestant thought! Make up their own doctrine? Hardly! Do you read your Bible? Or do you wait for the Pope to tell you what it says? God gave you a brain, and He expects you to use it! The only requirement for understanding scripture is having a personal relationship with the Author. You don't get that by rituals, by liturgy, by praying to saints or Mary. You get that by praying to Jesus, and asking Him to forgive your sins and come into your heart. You ask Him to cleanse you and make you a new man (or woman, as the case may be). Jesus said "ye must be born again". That's how you do it. It's scriptural, and it works. Once you have done that, then you can read and understand the Bible, because you have its Author, the Holy spirit, living inside you to lead and guide you into all truth (Jesus' own words).
Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventism, Moonies, Mormons, the old Worldwide Church of God, Oneness Pentecostalism, Snake-handling Pentecostalism, Jim Jones, Christadelphianism, Swedenborgianism, and Branch Davidianism are all descendants of the Protestant Reformation, and late ones at that.
Every one of those you named is not a descendant of the Reformation. Just because someone starts a "new" group of followers and claims to use the Bible as their inspiration, it doesn't mean that they are Christian. Every one of those you named are cults, and labeled as such by the main Protestant denominations.
Oh Christ almighty, will you get off this "pray to statues" and "pray to Mary" crap! I mean, this is like Jack Chick 101 stuff.
That's it, use His name in vain, that really establishes your point. As far as the "pray to statues, pray to Mary" stuff, do you deny that Catholics do that? If you do then in addition to being a blasphemer, you are a liar, and you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven doing that stuff.
Go ahead, dishonor Mary by not asking her to pray for you and by not calling her blessed (uh, that one's taken right from the Bible). I'm sure Jesus likes us to not give His Mother the respect she deserves.
Please tell me where in scripture it is commanded that we give extra honor to Mary? Mary is dead, and cannot pray for us anymore, nor can she hear our prayers. God hears our prayers, in the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are forbidden to pray to any other than the true God. Your idea of respect to Jesus Mother is a cultural construct, not a scriptural one. Jesus never commanded any such thing, and never would.
The whole idea of Christ's redemptive work was so that God and you could have fellowship. Directly. One on one. Without a middleman. Catholicism has placed roadblocks to fellowship with God in the path of it's followers. Catholicism attempts to invalidate the Word of God with traditions of men, and inserts itself between man and God. There is one mediator between God and man, the Man, Jesus Christ.
Becky
Nope. You only hang an effigy of Him still on the cross over your altars, and believe that the Communion is the consuming of the literal Body and Blood of Christ (transubstantiation), rather than what Christ said, "Do this in remembrance of Me", (a memorial).
What do you mean when you say sacrifice doesn't have to mean death? In reference to Christ, that's all it could mean. The cross as a symbol of the Faith is fine, but a crucifix, with Christ still on the cross, is inaccurate. He's not still on the cross. He is risen and seated at the right hand of the Father.
Eph. 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Is the prayer the Hail Mary ever said in the name of Jesus, or for that matter any Catholic prayer?
Becky
No truer words have been spoken. What if He had been strangled? Throat cut? Poisoned? Dashed upon a rock?
1. Your = adjective. You're = contraction, you are.
Yes I make mistakes like that all the time. I'm rather dyslexic you know.
2. ever other Pordy = What?
So, I left out the 'y'. Pordy? My spell checker must have changed the word Proddy to Pordy. I didn't catch it.
3. that fact that it you guys = What again?
Change the first 'that' to a 'the' and just ignore the 'it' ok. It's not as if you've never left a word in you didn't mean to.
4. fallow = context?
Follow. The spell checker won't catch it if it is a real word
5. and don't make sacrifice to Him = singular?
Actually that sentence is fine, a little old fashioned but fine.
6. no more worse = ?? less? equal?? what???
Again, that word[more] I meant to take out.
7. then = adjective. than = conjuctive.
And again the dyslexia, sorry.
Grade:Grammar, spelling, sentence structure: F
I apologize pleas forgive me. I've always been very dyslexic, I couldn't even read until I was 14. you have no idea how hard it's been for me in School and now College with my problems:(
"I believe there are countless millions of Catholics in this world who have no idea who the Lord is. They pray to Mary, they pray to various Saints, they pray to statues, they never pray directly to Jesus.
Grade for accuracy: F
"the one OLD REGGIE made about Catholics not knowing God." Is that better? And you wonder why you are misunderstood????
I have never wondered why I am misunderstood, I know very well why.
Again I apologize. God bless.
Church accrued the name "Catholic" (catolikos) in response to many other people claiming to be Christians. It became necessary to differentiate orthodox Christianity from the various sects and heresies that were (and have been since her founding in 33AD) springing up. It means "universal."
Roman Catholic was a term that originally was used pejoratively, by Anglicans, to denote those Christians who remained in union with the Bishop of Rome, as opposed to those who split off under the reign of King Henry VIII (who were called "Anglican Catholics").
Roman Catholic is not an official name of the Catholic Church. Over time it has become understood to connote those who remain loyal and obedient to the Bishop of Rome, but if you check "Roman" Catholic church documents, they are always addressed to "The Catholic Church." (Even the catechism is called "The Catechism of the Catholic Church.")
There are different "rites" within the Catholic Church -- Latin and Byzantine, to name 2 of the more familiar ones. I'm sure there are others, but I'm not familiar with other rites besides the Latin. However, all these rites are still in union with Rome.
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Anyway, I'm still waiting for you to provide me with more information on those exerpts from Augustine -- have you missed my previous 2 messages where I requested them? If so, not to worry -- just a reminder. Thanks ahead of time.
P2BA, where did you find this bit of history, I just checked the Catholic Encyclopedia, and the earliest date they give for the words "Catholic Church" are around 110AD, and they had to use the epistles of Ignatius to find it then.
Ignatius was credited with 15 epistles, of which 8 of them were obvious frauds, and the seven that were left were known to have interpolations in them, which would probably explain why this strange phrase turned up where it did.
If memory serves me right, these epistles didn't show up until the 1700's, which allowed plenty of time for changing.
REgarding Catholic vs. catholic -- I guess you're getting a little nitpicky, but since you started it, I'll finish it --
"Catholic" can be both adjective or noun, depending on the context (He is a Catholic (noun). That is a Catholic belief (adjective -- Catholic modifies belief)). "catholic" - with a lower-case "c" is always an adjective.
Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: "As regards 'Catholic' . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church" (Early Christian Doctrines, pg.190).
So this supports what I said, it was near 300AD before the term "catholic church" was used as a noun, thanks for the support.(^g^)
Yes I am dyslexic, you can ask Diva(my mom). Don't sweat it, I've been criticized meany a time for my bad English. I blame the "PublikSkuil" system. But, I'm not as bad as I used to be. You might notice that I do take some time in responding to posts, thats because I like to proof read and re-type my posts before I send it. Some times I don't and what happens is, as we call it at my home, "textongues".
My only true objection was your misrepresentation of what I had said.
Well I objected to your belief that Catholics don't know the Lord, which suggests we don't worship Him either. I don't think that is to much of an assumption. If we don't know, we obviously don't worship.
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