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OHIO: Angry smokers vow to fight cigarette bans
Associated Press ^ | 2-7-04 | John Seewer

Posted on 02/19/2004 11:48:22 AM PST by SheLion

Toledo bar owners find loophole to let patrons light up

TOLEDO — James Pierson sat at the corner of the bar with a cigarette in his hand and a court summons in his coat pocket.

The retired autoworker was charged about a month ago with violating the city’s ban on smoking in bars and restaurants.

That wasn’t stopping him from a beer and another cigarette.

"In reality, I’m breaking the law right now," said Pierson, 62, of Temperance, Mich. "Everybody should stand up for their rights."

Defiant smokers and tavern owners in cities where smoking has been outlawed are rising up to protest, staging "smokeins" and filing lawsuits to overturn clean-air ordinances.

"We’re trying every angle we can to get everyone on our side," said Jerry Zaspel, owner of Barb’s Westgate Inn, in Tacoma, Wash.

Driving smokers away will put him out of business, Zaspel said. "It’s not a smoking issue. It’s a survival issue," he said.

Some bar owners in Tacoma refused to put away their ashtrays before a judge threw out the ban Jan. 23. Supporters of the ordinance plan to appeal.

A husband and wife who ran a truck-stop restaurant in Tampa, Fla., wouldn’t kick out the smokers when a statewide ban on smoking began in July.

The stand won the hearts of smokers, but they lost their restaurant when the plaza’s owner evicted them in September for flouting the law.

Nonsmoking ordinances started becoming popular in the mid-1980s as grocery stores banned smoking and restaurants put in seating areas for nonsmokers.

A California law banning smoking in bars and restaurants in 1994 led to another surge in clean-air legislation.

There have been only a handful of victories for smoking-ban opponents.

City council members in Austin, Texas, overturned a ban on smoking in restaurants and bars in October after business owners said it could have a devastating economic impact.

Toledo bar owners have taken the fight against smoking bans a step further by creating a charity to take advantage of a loophole that allows smoking in private clubs and at private social functions.

"Usually it’s a very, very small minority who stands in defiance and it usually lasts about a month," said Josh Alpert, spokesman for Americans for Nonsmokers’ Rights.

"What’s happening in Toledo is probably the most creative," he said.

About 40 bar owners formed a nonprofit charity called "Taverns for Tots." They charge patrons $1 for a lifetime membership and promise to donate the fee and 1 percent of their gross receipts to children’s charities.

"It’s a very innovative, creative way of doing a charity, and yes, we can still allow smoking," said bar owner Bill Delaney. "Being innovative and creative — that’s the American way."

A federal judge has put a temporary stop to their plan and is expected to decide by the end of the month whether it can continue, but some of those trying to sidestep the ban still were allowing smoking.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Government; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: addiction; andscorpions; antismokers; bans; butts; cigarettes; individualliberty; lawbreakers; lawmakers; maine; niconazis; professional; prohibitionists; pufflist; smokingbans; stinkyaddicts; taxes; tobacco; worldismyashtray
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To: All
See my post #18. I know, I agree w/ you. But I cannot resist the temptation to post the old slogan below:

"Were you born gay, or did you just get sucked into it?"
41 posted on 02/19/2004 1:58:26 PM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: SheLion
I cannot stand cigarettes, they stink and they make clothes reek, plus it is a terrible habit. But, I do believe that every public business should have the right to decide for itself if it wants to allow smoking or be a smoke free zone.

I as a patron can then decide which establishments I want to frequent.

It is far better for the market to dictate the policy, then let the Anti-Smok-i-Nazi's force it upon us through another law.

42 posted on 02/19/2004 2:03:38 PM PST by Michael.SF. (We found Saddam faster then Hillary found the Rose Law firms billing records.)
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To: CSM
LOL - I got ID's for beer, not cigarettes...............

You've got FReepmail
43 posted on 02/19/2004 2:04:43 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Michael.SF.
If more people had your attitude, and spoke with the owners of their favorite establishments instead of listening to the paid plitical mouthpieces who claim there are no people like you out there - this type of discussion would not even be occurring.

Thank you for your reasoned position.
44 posted on 02/19/2004 2:08:32 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Gabz
I was just sucking up a bit more than the clerks. I tend to do that when I want something.........
45 posted on 02/19/2004 2:11:29 PM PST by CSM (My Senator is so stupid he'd have to get naked to count to 21 and my Governor wouldn't be able to!)
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To: CSM
You're bad................
46 posted on 02/19/2004 2:16:51 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: concerned about politics
Homosexuality is just a chosen sex fetish. There's no proof of addiction at all.

You cannot so easily simplify the complex. There is on one reason why people develop the way they do, in many areas. Sexuality is one of them.

Some are simply born that way, some devlop into it through external factors, others choose it.

47 posted on 02/19/2004 2:19:04 PM PST by Michael.SF. (We found Saddam faster then Hillary found the Rose Law firms billing records.)
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To: SheLion
>>City council members in Austin, Texas, overturned a ban on smoking in restaurants and bars in October after business owners said it could have a devastating economic impact.<<

HA HA! I remember several years ago, we met some friends in Austin for a reunion..... Since we were all smokers, and since we wanted to send Liberal Austin a message, we left town for every meal - to eat and smoke in peace!

48 posted on 02/19/2004 2:28:58 PM PST by Humidston (Two Words: TERM LIMITS)
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To: CSM
My appologies on my #11 post toward you. I do have a sense of humor, however, I did not pick up on the sarcasm. Dahhhh here.

I am a bit thin skinned on this subject.

Thanks for bringing my mistake to my attention. I will be a bit more open minded to sarcasm in the future. Yea..Right.

49 posted on 02/19/2004 2:58:29 PM PST by AGreatPer (Current odds on Hillary being drafted at the convention: 3-1)
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To: AGreatPer; CSM
Those of us who have dealing with this for varying lengths of time have developed either alligator or rhinocerous hides........plus we have developed many long term friendships and association and so have a tendency to understand the nuances of each other's posting style.

As so many of us are used to CSM's style we knew exactly what he was taling about, and just let it slide on by.

Had someone no one was familiar with done the same type of post - they would have been jumped all over with a reaction similar to yours.

We're a fun-loving bunch and protect our own.

Welcome to the fray!!!!

50 posted on 02/19/2004 3:11:28 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: qam1
RE your post #22----is the smoking ban being ignored in Ireland? I won't visit any country that prohibits smoking and the last time I was there you could smoke almost anyplace.

I would love to know what's going on in Ireland.
52 posted on 02/19/2004 4:50:06 PM PST by Mears
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To: Mears
The ban goes into effect on March 29th, I guess stay out of Dublin

Irish pubs revolt over smoking

Pubs further north fear customers will migrate to Northern Irish bars Publicans in the south-west of the Irish Republic have pledged to ignore a ban on smoking due to take effect in 2004.

Landlords in County Kerry said they would weather heavy fines in order to retain smoking customers, said to make up half the clientele in some bars.

The Irish health minister has ruled out any compromise over the ban on smoking in all workplaces, including pubs.

"The law will be applied to all establishments and that's the bottom line," Michael Martin said.

But all 380 members of a Kerry association of landlords have voted to reject the ban and decided instead that they would set up special areas for smokers.

John O'Sullivan, chairman of the association, said he would erect double doors in his own bar in Tralee and ask customers not to smoke within a metre of the bar.

"In this country we've had 800 years of oppression from a foreign power," he said, referring to the English occupation.

"Perhaps we might be rebellious by nature. We don't expect Michael Martin to bend just yet but bend he will once he feels the tide of public opinion."

'Intimidation'

The health minister said on Friday that research showed that secondary smoke was a killer and bar staff had to be protected by the law, which foresees fines of up to 1,900 euros for any pubs which do not comply after 1 January.

Referring to unrest among publicans, he said: "I think when people are still making these kind of statements they are failing to realise that this is for real".

Mandate, the trade union representing bar staff, has endorsed the ban and rejected the findings of a recent telephone poll conducted by the Irish Vintners' Federation which found that 70% of staff backed a compromise.

The union said the poll amounted to an act of intimidation.

Some bars in the capital, Dublin, appear to have accepted the ban and have already begun setting up wall-mounted ash-trays outside their premises as well as heated outdoor areas for smokers.

53 posted on 02/19/2004 5:07:40 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: Chris Talk
What a very, very interesting point you make.
54 posted on 02/19/2004 6:26:02 PM PST by Devil_Anse
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To: Iron Matron
Great points. Sure, people can just ignore the laws in California, but let one person light a cigarette in an area which has been decreed by law to be a non-smoking zone, and I guess that person needs to go to jail.

I'm not surprised, though, that the homosexuals in SF are just ignoring the laws. That's what they've done since the Supreme Court gave them an answer they didn't like in the Boy Scout leader case. If they don't like the law, they just ignore it! So.... why can't a smoker do the same?
55 posted on 02/19/2004 6:28:55 PM PST by Devil_Anse
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To: SheLion
This is great, hey if San Francisco can do it so can we. The only difference is these people aren't elected officials using tax dollars or that took an oath to uphold the law.

Smoke em if you got em.
56 posted on 02/19/2004 8:00:26 PM PST by TheEaglehasLanded
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To: SheLion
In Ohio, are Republicans, or Democrats, doing this?
(enacting smoking bans)
Please be as specific as you can.
57 posted on 02/19/2004 9:08:52 PM PST by greasepaint
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To: Iron Matron
fire with fire BUMP!
58 posted on 02/19/2004 9:12:17 PM PST by KingNo155
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To: SheLion
Since Mayor Newsom has decided to forego law, any one of us may assume that we also may defy the no smoking bans across the country; those bans infringe on our rights.......
59 posted on 02/19/2004 9:16:22 PM PST by yoe (WMD come in small containers/vials...small minds don't want you to know that.)
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To: Iron Matron
You would get along with my mother. She's been looking for an anti-discrimination lawsuit for a few months now. Somewhere, there has to be a lawyer who wouldn't mind making a few million dollars.

Incidentally, I had to take my son to the doc's today and was asked the standard question, "Are there any smokers in the home?" I answered, "My son is here for his diabetes. Your question is irrelevant to the present state of his health and a violation of my family's privacy." For the first time since I've been making my little statement, she didn't even blink. Usually, the questioner is quite flustered. They must be hearing it a little more often.

60 posted on 02/19/2004 10:08:13 PM PST by Marie (My coffee cup is waaaaay too small to deal with this day.)
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