"Thou art a wimp forever" - bishops meeting

Touchstone Magazine - mere comments ^ | September 9, 2003 | Leon Podles

[american colleen]

THOU ART A WIMP FOREVER:

I went to the meeting with the bishops that Deal Hudson and Russell Shaw arranged. I did not expect much, and I was not disappointed.

The bishops were told 1. that they had to be more direct in dealing with dissenting Catholics, and 2. that they should at the least stop appointing notorious pro-abortion politicians to prominent committees (Leon Panetta at the national Review Board).

The response to 1 : we are family, doing anything might make matters worse and only help pro-abortion politicians

The response to 2 : if his bishop vouches for the orthodoxy of any member of his flock, no other bishop will ever question that decision.

We were asked not to quote people, so I will quote myself:

“We all know that bishops were chosen by the Vatican because they are diplomatic, unifiers, team players, collegial. These are good qualities. However these qualities also lead to a reluctance to confront evil, even when confrontation is necessary. This reluctance led to the scandals. When people who knew the bishop responsible were asked how the bishop could ever let such a thing go on, they invariably replied, 'He hates confrontation more than anything.'

"Bishops have to be willing to go against their personalities and confront evil. We are in a battle, we are losing it. The more Catholic a state (or Canadian province), the more pro-abortion the politicians. Catholic societies have the lowest birth rates in the world. The policy of accommodation of the past 30 years has not worked. Confrontation may not work either, but we have to try it, and at least go down fighting.”

This was the message which almost all the participants gave to the bishops, with various degrees of tact.

But, as was obvious, nothing will change.

Hostility (see Mark Shea’s blog) is generally reserved for those who complain about outrageous goings–on, not the people who perpetrate the outrages. A bad conscience hurts.

Bishop Wilton Gregory, President of the USCCB Theodore Cardinal McCarrick of Washington, D.C. Bishop William Friend of Shreveport, LA Msgr. William Fay, USCCB General Secretary Msgr. Francis Maniscalco, USCCB Communications Director Kathleen McChesney, director of the USCCB’s Office of Child and Youth Protection Raymond Arroyo, EWTN News Director Pat Cipollone, Kirkland & Ellis partner William Donohue, President of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights Greg Erlandson, Publisher of Our Sunday Visitor Elizabeth Fox-Genovese, Professor of History at Emory University Dr. Robert George, Professor of Politics at Princeton University Frank Hanna, III, CEO of HBR Capital, Ltd. Barbara Henkels, Board Member of the Catholic Leadership Conference Paul Henkels, CEO of Henkels & McCoy, Inc. Tom Hoopes, Executive Editor of National Catholic Register Mother Assumpta Long, Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist Peggy Noonan, commentator and columnist for the Wall Street Journal Robert Novak, commentator with CNN Kate O’Beirne, Senior Editor of National Review Fr. David O’Connell, President of the Catholic University of America Timothy O’Donnell, President of Christendom College Russell Shaw, co-host of the meeting, writer and editor Gene Zurlo, President of the Catholic Radio Association Denis Coleman, Ambassador for the American Consulate in Bermuda Bernard Dobranski, Dean of Ave Maria School of Law Jeffrey Wallin, President of the American Academy for Liberal Education William Plunkett, Jr., Plunkett & Jaffe partner Leon Suprenant, President of Catholics United for the Faith Sister Joseph Andrew, Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist Patrick Madrid, Publisher of Envoy Magazine Father Richard Gill, L.C., Director of Our Lady of Bethesda Retreat Center Gregory Popcak, Director of the Pastoral Solutions Institute Dr. Thomas Dillon, President of Thomas Aquinas College Lt. Gov. Michael Steele, Office of Lt. Governor for the state of Maryland Fr. Terence Henry, President of Franciscan University Fr. Frank Pavone, Priests for Life Carol McKinley, Faithful Voice Rep. Michael Ferguson, U.S. House of Congress Mark Ryland, Vice-President of the Discovery Institute Kathryn Jean Lopez, Associate Editor of National Review John Klink, former Diplomat of the Holy See to the UN Leon Podles, Senior Editor of Touchstone Magazine Cortes DeRussy, former President of Federated Capital Corporation Brian Saint-Paul, Editor of CRISIS Magazine

—Leon Podles 4:33 PM

[redhead]

"Furthermore, it is up to the ordinary of the diocese to clean his own house. As Catholics, we have a tradition of subsidiarity expecting the power to be exercised as close to the scene of the evil as feasible. The Vatican is doing its job by replacing the cowards and apostates with Catholic bishops. The Vatican's problem was in allowing organized leftists to influence the choice of bishops in years past. Let the games begin. Let the purge be thorough. Let the thumbs be turned downwards and let us hear the last of Kumbaya "Catholicism" and of AmChurch."

Amen. And, let the eyes of the faithful be opened to the truth about the lack of manliness in their bishops. It is very frustrating to have a politician for a bishop. They beat around the bush. They are slippery as eels. They cannot be pinned down on ANYTHING. They will not admit to any malfeasance or dereliction. It is very sad that so many of the bishops in place today are little more than party hacks and apparatchiki.

[maryz]

If obedience meant only enduring things that please us, it wouldn't be virtuous.

True -- in this context, though, reminds me of an (I think) unattributed quote I saw in Christopher Derrick:

A liturgist is an affliction sent by God so that in times of no overt persecution, a Catholic need not be denied the privilege of suffering for the Faith.

[Terriergal]

lol! I have been on some Catholic threads and of course, a lot of my friends and neighbors belong to the Catholic church. I always like to know others' points of view anyway. The Catholic church is one of the biggest targets of those who would persecute Christians. Don't mind being on your list.

[BlackElk]

Good morningm, deacon!

If you think that your Bishop Delaney of Fort Worth who brought his "old pal", a morally discredited lavender priest from Rhode Island, to run the diocesan Boy Scout program is "better than the rest," there has been a serious role reversal and you have become far more critical of AmChurch bishops than is Maximilian.

Maximilian: On the other hand, there are more than 1 or 2 exceptions who are far better than the rest. Our Bishop Thomas Doran, Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln, Archbishop Eldon Curtiss of Omaha, Bishop Weigand of Sacramento, Archbishop Dolan in Milwaukee, Archbishop O'Malley in Boston, Arnhbishop Myers of Newark, his successor at Peoria, Bishop Burke of LaCrosse, the new bishop at Madison, the new bishop at Brooklyn, New York, Archbishop Rigali of Philadelphia come immediately to mind and there are others.

[BlackElk]

Good morning, deacon!

If you think that your Bishop Delaney of Fort Worth who brought his "old pal", a morally discredited lavender priest from Rhode Island, to run the diocesan Boy Scout program is "better than the rest," there has been a serious role reversal and you have become far more critical of AmChurch bishops than is Maximilian.

Maximilian: [Failed to ping you the first time. Sorry!] On the other hand, there are more than 1 or 2 exceptions who are far better than the rest. Our Bishop Thomas Doran, Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln, Archbishop Eldon Curtiss of Omaha, Bishop Weigand of Sacramento, Archbishop Dolan in Milwaukee, Archbishop O'Malley in Boston, Arnhbishop Myers of Newark, his successor at Peoria, Bishop Burke of LaCrosse, the new bishop at Madison, the new bishop at Brooklyn, New York, Archbishop Rigali of Philadelphia come immediately to mind and there are others.

[american colleen]

AC saves a lot of us a lot of typing.

I just saw this and the post it referenced, St. Chuck. Dangus, I just copied and pasted that post, although I wish I could have written it, I didn't! I posted the link, though, if you want to read additional info about the meeting.

[BlackElk]

UR: SSPX is in schism. The pope says so. Its bishops are excommunicated. he pope says so. You are graciously allowed by a Monsignor Perle, one an officer of the Vatican Congregation on the Liturgy, to attend SSPX Masses. It is conceded that they are valid but not licit. You are allowed to make SMALL contributions to defray the expense of such Masses [not to fund the steady stream of anti-Catholic propaganda. Attending the Masses of SSPX is one thing. Adhering to the schism is quite another.

The misery of those who have apostasized from the Roman Catholic Church always drives a need for company. Hence the endless posting on these threads by a handful of SSPX- oriented folk seeking t tempt ohers to adhere to the schism. All this too shall pass a way and soon enough.

Karen: Note the Clintonian defenses: "How am I in SSPX? I am not a cleric." Nor does he believe the pope who has affirmed that SSPX is in schism. He willfully refuses papal authority and states he will do so no matter how many times it is asserted. Thanks for your interventions and for all the things that matter, carry on. Aren't you glad to be genuinely and submissively Catholic and not have to speculate on how many Lefebvres dance on the head of a pin? I am.

[BlackElk]

I'll second that motion.

[ultima ratio]

Sorry, the Pope may have said in a letter the SSPX bishops were excommunicated, but no one can be excommunicated latae sententiae--which is an automatic punishment--UNLESS he intends to disobey the Pontiff out of malice. This is the standard necessary to incur the penalty which is stated by the Pope's own Canon Law. Remember, the Pope himself was not excommunicating the bishops of SSPX, he was merely stating his belief that the penalty had been incurred latae sententiae--i.e., automatically.

But the Pope had no way of knowing this with certitude. This is because Archbishop Lefebvre and his bishops argued that they were proceeding in good conscience in order to preserve Sacred Tradition and to avoid doing irreparable harm to the Church. They claimed to sincerely believe the denial of consecrations by the Pope was primarily intended to preclude future ordinations of traditional priests with a view to destroying Catholic Tradition itself. The Pope had no way of knowing the level of sincerity involved in these assertions. In other words, ultimately he could only guess the latae sententiae penalties had been actually incurred.

Canon Law also provides a contingency canon for disobedience--the State of Necessity clause which the Archbishop duly evoked. That he sincerely believed the Church was in crisis cannot be doubted. He spoke publicly of his fears and had often railed against the revolution which was turning the Church upside down and plunging it in chaos. If he used this canon as an argument for disobedience, no one can reasonably doubt he did not truly believe that the Church was actually in crisis. And the canon states that mere belief that such a critical state existed would be sufficient to incur no penalty. The subject need not actually be right in any objective sense.

Unless the Pontiff had prescinded his own canon laws regarding acts of disobedience, therefore, the Archbishop and his associates were never actually excommunicated. Nor could the Pope have had access to the internal state of their consciences to know with certitude whether the latae sententiae penalty had ever actually taken effect by reason of malice. Had he wanted certitude on any of this, he might have had recourse to a pontifical tribunal--the usual mode of proceeding with prelates in defiance. In such a case, however, the Archbishop would have had the right to mount his own defense when questioned about his motives. This course the Pope did not pursue, but relied instead on a latae sententiae decree which itself was woefully contingent. And thus the matter stands.

[ninenot]

The Bishops, as a group, also have termites within their own bureaucracy which are eating the house down while they are in it.

They have, as a group, a total inability to FIRE someone for being insubordinate, heretical, or for flagrantly violating Diocesan policy, etc...

They have no idea what's going on--and when/if they find out (assuming that the Bishop in question is actually faithful to Rome) they hide in a corner and HOPE it goes away.

I can point out the termites in the Diocese of Milwaukee--and so can others. After a year in office, Dolan has only managed to FIRE two of them. Best that can be said: it's a start.

[ultima ratio]

"Misery"? Apostasy? On what do you base this? "A need for company?" "Seeking to tempt others?" This all sounds pretty strident. My own view is that we're in a war for the identity of the Catholic Church and I'm fighting on the side of Sacred Tradition--so sure I want people with me. But not because I'm lonely and need somebody to hold my hand and keep me company.

As for papal authority--how do I refuse it? He hasn't ordered me not to consecrate anybody lately. Nor does he order me not to attend SSPX Masses. So where's the substance to your argument? How am I an apostate? I do admit I don't cotton to liberal popes like JPII and Paul VI who are antagonistic towards Tradition; I sincerely believe they have done very great damage to the Catholic Church; and I believe the good fathers of the SSPX are absolutely right in their adherence to tradition and are neither in schism nor excommunicated. The last I checked none of this adds up to apostasy.

[ninenot]

This is a colosally silly statement, Max, and I disagree with it totally!

Agreed, sinky.

Max--my man--if you want to read documents that are confrontational, go read the Declaration of Independence.

If you want to read a document that teaches the Truth, go to Humanae Vitae.

Different purposes, different style.

[ninenot]

UR's idea of "theologically sufficient" text during the Mass would reach its zenith with a recitation of the entire Summa Theologica every week.

[ultima ratio]

Your characterizations are ludicrous. The progressivists acted with "tact" and "respect" when they threw out the ancient Mass, together with the tabernacles, the altars, the communion rails, the Sacred Heart statues? This was a reign of terror, not tact. Traditionalists, on the other hand, have been "confrontational" when they have dared to show resistance? Yeah, sure. How tactless! How inconsiderate!

What unmitigated nonsense you post.

[ninenot]

I think Hudson's take on Gregory's letter re: celibacy is a bit generous. Gregory's work was bureaucratic and, while supportive of celibacy, simply had no force whatsoever to it.

Contrast: Dolan's letter on the same. Velvet glove but a noticeable iron fist. MANHOOD spoken there.

[ultima ratio]

Archbishop Dolan? --you need to strike him off the list. The following is from Traditio.com:

____________________________________________________________

Novus Ordo Archbishop Presides at "Bikers Mess"

Biker Relaxes on His Hog during Novus Ordo "Bikers Mess"
Archbishop of Milwaukee "Presides" over Scandal

Just when you thought that the Novus Ordo couldn't sink any lower, particularly in the archdiocese of Milwaukee, we present for your revulsion the Novus Ordo "Bikers Mess."

Milwaukee is arguably the nadir of the Novus Ordo apparatus in the United States. Its recently retired archbishop Rembert Weakland was well known for teaching heresy. If it had anything to do with Roman Catholicism, he didn't want any part of it. Oh, of course, he always couched his comments in the pseudo-academic verbiage that always deceives the Novus Ordinarians. But then what lay behind his hatred of things Roman Catholic was exposed. He had been shacking up with a paramour and was paying him off for his silence allegedly with church money in a perversion of Robin Hood: rob the poor to give to the rich.

Even when all of this was exposed, John Paul II, who rivals the Bad Popes of the Renaissance in his collusion by silence in the gross immoralities of his cardinals, bishops, and priests, did not fire the Bad Thief, but was allegedly going to keep him on after his 75th year! In the end, this pope allowed him to retire quietly. No censure, no dismissal, no public penance -- just silent collusion in a Novus Ordo system so rotten that a former federal prosecutor and attorney general dubbed it "no better than the Cosa Nostra." And Archbishop Lefebvre was "excommunicated"? Give me a break!

Well, now the pope had a chance to do his own penance and appoint an exemplary archbishop to replace Weakland the Weak. And whom does he find? One Timothy M. Dolan. Now this is not the first time that Dolan has been a party to scandal. As reported here previously from the Milwaukee Catholic Herald, Dolan stood by while a self-proclaimed priestess, Ginny Kiernan Dahlbert, was allowed to "preside" at a prayer service at St. Matthias "Catholic" parish in Milwaukee on March 25, the Feast of the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Now, on August 30, we find him "presiding" over an outdoor Novus Ordo Mess for hogs. According to the Milwaukee Catholic Herald, the diocese's periodical of record, church bells were replaced by the deafening roar of motorcycle engines. Instead of kneeling, the bikers reclined on their hogs. The dress of the day was "T-shirts and jeans, bandana head coverings, boots and lots and lots of black leather."

The place known as "Holy Hill" was certainly desecrated this day. Dolan chose personally to preside over one of those Novus Ordo "concelebration" messes, demonstrating that the cookie-and-grape-juice service is really a community hoopla. The archbishop was powerless to offer the service on his own, but needed the assistance of "10 concelebrating priests and 12 deacons who arrived at the altar for the Mass atop a wagon pulled by a large red tractor."

Among them, were two Novus Ordo presbyters on their personal hogs: Pres. John Schreiter, pastor of St. Bruno Parish in Dousman and Pres. Robert Stiefvater, director of the archdiocesan office for vocations. Is it any wonder that vocations are down? Any true Catholic would be scandalized to have anything to do with these people, let alone the Novus Ordo Counterfeit Church.

Nor were the hogs wanting for music. Gregorian chant? You've got to be kidding! No, a group known as the HOG choir "kept the theme of the day, with many dressed in black, white, orange and leather."

That any Catholic would have the temerity to be associated with the New Order in any way is unbelievable. Those of you traditional Catholics who keep writing me about how to defend the traditional Roman Catholic Faith, my answer is: "Don't!" You have nothing to defend. Put the Novus Ordinarians on the defensive. They can't possibly defend any of this as "Roman Catholic."

And to think that Dolan was being touted as one of the more prayerful and "orthodox" of the very few who could be found to pass muster for consideration. If this is the best that the American Novus Ordo can come up with, pity the other 299 dioceses that have the dregs of the episcopacy!

[rogator]

"Novus Ordo Archbishop Presides at "Bikers Mess""

He is not totally liberal. At least there were no dancing bikerettes.


"He had been shacking up with a paramour and was paying him off for his silence allegedly with church money"

Has any effort been made by the diocese to recover this money?

[karen999]

"Maybe you're the one who should investigate whether your own faith is truly Catholic. "

Sounds like you're projecting. Where you are getting that
the missal reflects Lutheranism, I have no idea. Tin-foil
hat a shade tight? Even the pope doesn't wear his mitre
so tightly that it doesn't impede the flow of blood to the brain.

[Land of the Irish]

Its (SSPX) bishops are excommunicated. (T)he pope says so.

The pope also says Catholics and Muslims worship the same God.

I, personally, know of no Catholic, whether he is a "traditionalist", a "conservative" or a "progressive" who agrees with this statement. Does that make them all schismatic; because they refuse to acknowledge Allah as their God, let alone worship him/it?