Posted on 08/25/2003 6:54:55 PM PDT by Hyacinth Bucket
Here's a link to today's (Mon 8/25/03) broadcast of Focus on the Family with Dr. James Dobson.
Aired today but taped from yesterday. 30 minutes
http://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/Focus_on_the_Family/
or
http://www.family.org/
Guests: Judge Roy Moore and Alan Keyes
Hear from the Judge himself.
Topic: The constitutionality of displaying the 10 Commandments monument in the Alabama Judicial Center
This is a MUST HEAR. If you think you already know all about the nuances of this issue, listen anyway. It's one of the best programs I've heard Focus on the Family do in years. Both guests are very well-versed in the Constitution and the Law.
Note to new visitors to the thread: in order to find the Justice Moore link one needs to click on "Broadcast Archives" and find the link for Monday, August 25th.
Thanks for adding me to your PING list. I am honored. Also, I am encouraged that there are lurkers and new members out there reading and following some of the many debates and challenges and witnessing we are trying to do here on FR.
Welcome...and count me as one of your new friends if you like!
PS - my wife is a BIG Keeping Up Appearances fan...
God is mentioned once in the Delcraation of Independence, together with the laws of Nature and "Nature's God," which is not the way Christians see God. There is also a reference to a "Creator" which can mean a lot of things. There is no reference to a bilibal deity, Jesus, or Savior.
Some Christian fundamentalists would love to se a theocracy in America, but that would clearly be contrary to our Founding Fathers' idea of what this country should be like: a place where human freedoms, including religion, are practiced freely -- not shoved down someone's throat! But even freeedom has limits. For, unlimited freeedom is anarchy and slavery to others. You do not have the freedom to invade my freedom!
Christian fundamentalists are wrong (as usual) in that they associate the Ten Commandments with Christianity, Judaism with Christianity. Christianity draws its roots from Judaism, as American society draws its roots from England and Europe, but Christianity is not Judaism, nor is America England.
What defines Christianity is Jesus Christ, and the Christian Bible, the Gospels and letters of Paul. Take out Jesus or the Gospels and you have no Christianity.
Surely, the Ten Commandments are a worthy set of rules that, if obided by, would make the world a lot nicer -- but they are not the way to Christian salvation. The entire purpose of Chirstianity is salvation, and the only way to salvation is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not other religions (and every practicing Jew will tell you that Christianity is another theology).
There are no Ten Commandments in the Mycenae Creed (4th century AD), that defines Chritian faith. So, what is this fuss all about?
It's about the fact that Ten Commandments define one and are associated with another specific relgion -- Judaism and Christianity. Their display suggests to anyone with more than a single digit IQ that it is an endorsement of specific religion(s) and is not some faith-nutral monument to the Creator. And that is just plain wrong. And so is swearing by the Bible, because what good does it do if an atheist or a non-Christian swears to it? There is a diference betwen the Ten Commandments (Judaism directly, Christianity indirectly) and a generic reference to God. Obviously one of nine Alabama's Chief Justices can't see the difference -- and neither can uncounted Evangelical fundamentalists who instead of seeing the Light are blinded by it.
Yeah. As if a slab of rock with the Ten Commandments inscribed upon it is shoving itself down people's throat. You err in asserting there is no connection between Christianity, Judaism, and the Ten Commandments:
"Christian fundamentalists are wrong (as usual) in that they associate the Ten Commandments with Christianity . . ."
Christ Himself said He came to fulfill the Law and not abolish it. Sure, there may be some folks who are out to establish an unconstitutional theocracy, but simple displays of the Ten Commandments are hardly going to get them there. Besides, even you yourself have said the Faith is not about the Ten Commandments. If anything, they are a salutary reminder to us all, no matter what faith we might practice.
Cry me a river, all you folks who are so chickenshit about displays of the simple truths spelled out in the Decalog.
Fortunately, we have people who sit in the most supreme positions who can use reason and not emotion, and thanks to them, we are a free and just Nation. People like Justice Moore and his fundamentalist “Christians” are just the kind of people who would do everything to turn this country into a blind theocracy.
The Fathers of our Nation were wise not to involve religion, knowing all too well that religions are exlusionary, divisive and ultimately contrary to our ideal of a multicultural melting pot. Belief in God is a personal matter, and it should remian just that. Freedom of religious expression means that no one will burn at a stake for worshiping a particular god. Justice should not care less if there is one or many gods. Justice should be concerned with human misdeeds, not divine matters.
Your acknowledgement of my intellectual superiority is appreciated. My I give due recognition to your ignorance in asserting the Constitution of our land was written in a moral vaccuum without any regard to "God" whatsoever?
CAUTION: A copy of the Ten Commandments may appear in a legal setting near you. In fact, there might be one hiding in the bushes outside. Sorry. Your fearmongering and whining about potential theocracies carries no weight with me or the better part of mankind.
Christianity, Judaism and Islam all contend there is one God, but their cognizance of God differs to the point of exclusion. To you, "the God of Judaism and God of Christianity are one in the same, the only difference is Jews did not accept God's son Jesus as the Messiah."
Maybe you ned to consult some practicing Jews and ask them how come Judaism considers Christianity a different theology, that is why do they consider Christianity incompatible with being Jewish?
Maybe you can increase your IQ score a bit by reading about Christianity as well. Christian God is triune, one essence, three personas, nothing less. To make a statement such as the one you did tells me that you must be one of those heretic protestant "Christians" who make up a "religion" as they go along, and someone who knows not even the essentials of Christianity.
Your second "pearl" is: "Those who claim the founders of this nation to NOT be christians have trouble reading..."
Reading what? Our founding Fathers were wise men who made sure not to mix religion and politics (theocracy), knowing all too well that religions divide, exclude and in general do contrary to the spirit of the American melting pot. Our Founding Fathers were decent people who were not interested in forcing their Christian faith onto others. The God on coins appeared much after them and on $ bills in 1956! Read your history!
They were also decent enough to know that decent people keep their religion as their private relationship with God, and that the idea of Christian faith is not to drum up your convictions and shove your faith down everyones throats -- but to do everything that will make you a better human being and hope that your miserable soul will be saved. There is no other concern of Christianity then the salvation. The fact that various schismatic and heretic braches of Christianity have used it as a "sword" to enhance thier political standing or to conquer other people is a sad legacy to human nature that has proven itself to have fallen from God.
Wow. Your very own commandments. My conscience is stung.
Think I'll stick around a little while, though. As for the Ten Commandments, they've been around slightly longer than the Constitution, they're considerably better, and they'll last much longer, too.
That's a new one. The basis of our legal system is our Consitution. Please take your own advice -- and get some education. As for your inability to think rationally, no education may help.
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