Posted on 09/03/2002 12:16:14 PM PDT by Aliska
Miracle Cure: Priest's recovery brings sainthood to Polish nun
By Caryle Murphy/The Washington Post In 1995, the Rev. Ronald P. Pytel, just 48, had resigned himself to an idle life and early death. His heart was so damaged that simply walking made him winded. His complexion was pallid, his weight a gaunt 140 pounds. His quality of life, he recalls one doctor saying, "wasn't worth a plug nickel." But the pastor of Holy Rosary Catholic Church in Baltimore, like many of his parishioners, had long been devoted to Faustina Kowalska, a Polish nun and mystic who died in 1938. At a healing service in October 1995, he and a dozen church members were praying to her for his health when Pytel fell to the floor and, although conscious, couldn't get up for 15 minutes. "I could talk, but I couldn't move a muscle," he recalled. "It was as though I was paralyzed." When he finally stood up, he felt so fit he began laughing. Nowadays, the blond Pytel has the rosy cheeks of a choirboy, weighs a hearty 170 pounds and swims with abandon. His pumping machine is so robust he jokes of having "the heart of a 19-year-old." He and his parishioners call what happened a miracle. And so does the Catholic Church.
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(Excerpt) Read more at detnews.com ...
You have asked a fair question. I don't expect you to agree with the following, but only to respect the fact that Catholics may have a point.
Aside from the fact that the Church Magisterium has ruled on the issue and that Apostolic Tradition teaches it (both of which are sufficient to prove the matter), the Bible also teaches it.
In the book of Psalms, which was the hymn book for the Temple in Jerusalem, we sing to those in theheavenly court and exhort them:
"Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Psalm 103:20-21, RSV, as below)
The fact that those in the heavenly court can hear our prayers is also indicated in the book of Revelation, where we read:
"And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God." (Revelation 8:3-4)
Thus those saints who are angels have a role in presenting our prayers to God in an intercessory manner. (Angels are also saints, as indicated by the fact that the Bible applies the Hebrew word for saint/holy one -- qaddiysh -- to them, cf. Daniel 4:13, 23, 8:13. Thus we speak of St. Michael the Archangel, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, etc.).
Since the Ascension of Christ, when Jesus took the Old Testament saints from sheol to heaven, large numbers of humans saints have also been in heaven, and Revelation indicates they also present our prayers to God:
"And when he [the Lamb] had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Revelation 5:8).
The twenty-four elders represent the hierarchy of the people of God in heaven (just as the four living creatures represent the hierarchy of the angels of God in heaven), and here they are shown presenting our prayers to God under the symbol of incense (which is, in fact, what incense symbolizes in church, since it is a pleasing smell which rises upward).
One might object, saying, "But maybe those weren't prayers to the saints but prayers to God!" This may well be true. However, a person who says this only digs the hole deeper for himself since this would mean that those in heaven are aware of prayers which weren't even directed to them!
In any event, we know that the saints in heaven (whether human saints or angel saints) are aware of our prayers and, based on them, intercede with God on our behalf. Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium all agree.
Also, Matthew 28:19 presents the doctrine of the Trinity ("baptizing them in the Name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" [hence, we are forced to understand God as One Being of Three Persons].)
And of course, there is the Johannine Comma.
There are many other examples of this sort of solid proof of the Trinity of God. Of course, I wouldn't expect the average RC to know any of this. (It is standard Protestant knowledge; but then again, Protestant pastors carefully, methodically teach the Bible!)
Point for my understanding. If the Bible were to show the magiterium and tradition were wrong, would the practice be ended?
I'm sorry, I just don't see where you get that idea from that verse. It does not say that the angels presented the prayers to God. You're reading your view into it.
The fact that those in the heavenly court can hear our prayers is also indicated in the book of Revelation, where we read:
It says nothing more than that.
In any event, we know that the saints in heaven (whether human saints or angel saints) are aware of our prayers and, based on them, intercede with God on our behalf.
No where does it say that there is any intercession.
I hope you're not saying that with a straight face. Isn't that what Protestants do all the time with scripture? Why shouldn't Catholics?
Read the post carefully. As you requested, Scripture was quoted for you to support intercessary prayer. I don't expect you to accept our beliefs any more than we accept "sola scriptura."
Have a good evening.
Not one Jew has ever prayed to Moses, or AAron or Miriam, or the Baal Shem Tov, or any Rabbi no matter how revered. Commandment number one.
That often seems to wind up in the same place, but it's not the same thing. It's like the difference betweeen intelligence issues and wisdom issues.
To illustrate, I definitely don't think it's wise for you to allege that the orthodox statement of the doctrine of the Trinity cannot be derived from the Bible. It definitely can be derived from the Bible, as I pointed out to you--which fact you were not wise enough to respect.
(Do you see my dilemma? You are surely intelligent, but you are not discerning enough to keep out of trouble. [You just don't know the Scriptures, neither the Power of God.])
Interestingly, the reason why the orthodox formula for the Trinity is derivable from the Bible is because that's precisely where the early councils of the Church got the formula. No question about it.
So, the doctrine of the Trinity is an exception which proves the rule of our complaints against RCism.
You've refuted nothing, even with all your accented bold.
And I take it you interpret the scripture yourself. I still am wondering how you know you have inspired doctrine since you reject the very authority that put it together in the first place.
Oh, and good luck!
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