On The Physical Death of Jesus Christ

The New England Journal of Medicine ^ | 1986 | March 21, 1986 | William D. Edwards, MD; Wesley J. Gabel, MDiv; Floyd E. Hosmer, MS, AMI

[Oakleaf]

ABSTRACT: Jesus of Nazareth underwent Jewish and Roman trials, was flogged, and was sentenced to death by crucifixion. The scourging produced deep stripelike lacerations and appreciable blood loss, and it probably set the stage for hypovolemic shock as evidenced by the fact that Jesus was too weakened to carry the crossbar (patibulum) to Golgotha. At the site of crucifixion his wrists were nailed to the patibulum, and after the patibulum was lifted onto the upright post, (stipes) his feet were nailed to the stipes. The major pathophysiologic effect of crucifixion was an interference with normal respirations. Accordingly, death resulted primarily from hypovolemic shock and exhaustion asphyxia. Jesus’ death was ensured by the thrust of a soldier’s spear into his side. Modern medical interpretation of the historical evidence indicates that Jesus was dead when taken down from the cross. (JAMA 1986; 255:1455-1463)

(Excerpt) Read more at researchgate.net ...

[Oakleaf]

Other references on this topic. “A Doctor At Calvary: The Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ as Described by a Surgeon” Pierre Barbet, M.D. This is probably the single best book. I have given it to several priests over the years as a gift for Lent. “The Crucifixion ol Jesus, Completely Revised and Expanded, A Forensic Inquiry” by Frederick T. Zugibe. If you get the two-disc, Definitive Edition of the “Passion of The Christ” he is one of the people interviewed in the section on crucifixition.

DVD “How Jesus Died: The Final 18 Hours” Trinity Pictures Ltd. This includes sections with interviews with Frederick Zugibe and with Dr. John Bonica, one of the founding fathers of the modern study and understanding of pain and its treatment.

DVD “Crucifixtion” The History Channel.

Original JAMA at https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/404276

[No name given]

And He rose from the dead three days later. Hallelujah!!!!

[DoodleBob]

From a thread yesterday, on The Shroud of Turin. HT Skydancer-“ Why I believe in the authenticity of the Shroud:”

[Hebrews 11:6]

Thanks for this.

Here is another informed view: A physician and engineer's biomedical engineering examination of Jesus' crucifixion.

[waterhill]

It was on a Wednesday. Prove me wrong.

[piytar]

And He rose from the dead three days later. Hallelujah!!!!

AMEN!

[Carriage Hill]

He is risen !

[piytar]

Christ died because He allowed it. Christ was and is God incarnate. Literally immortal. If He wanted, the nails and spear would have simply bounced off.

Christ could have called down an army of angels, just one of which wiped out all the first born in Egypt. We are talking power at a level humans cannot begin to comprehend.

He sacrificed Himself for our sins. We are not worthy of that sacrifice, but we can but try to accept and live up to it.

Just my view.

[piytar]

AMEN!

[piytar]

but we can but try to accept and live up to it.

Sorry for the double "but"s. Better stated:

We are not worthy of that sacrifice. We can but try to accept and live up to it.

Adding:

Have faith. Pray.

Again, just my view. I'm no theologian.

[daniel1212]

As wicked as the illegal trial, false charges, humiliation, flogging was, and moreover the exhaustion and horrific suffering of the crucifixion, that itself was not the full "cup" that was so horrendous that the Lord prayed rather rhetorically, "if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me, nonetheless, Thy will be done (which affirmed to us that there was not other way).

I believe it was being made sin for us (1 Co. 5:21; 1 Pt. 2:24; 3:18) as it was, not only somehow becoming the exactly opposite of what He was, as if drinking the sewer of mankind's iniquity, but above all, some-how being cut off from His Father, as an enemy in utter despairing darkness, forsaken as if for eternity as far as experiencing it during His time on the cross, until He would cry, "It is FINISHED," (Jm. 19:30) as the prophesied scapegoat and sacrifice, having provided the perfect atonement for mankind, efficacious for all who will receive Him as the risen Lord and Savior, thanks be to God.

The redeemed are those who have been spiritually born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:2-7) by effectual, penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating faith in the Divine Son of God sent be the Father to be the Savior of the world, (1 Jn. 4:14) who saves sinners by His sinless shed blood, on His account.

And which faith is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5) and which is shown in baptism and following the Lord, (Acts 2:38-47; Jn. 10:27, 28) whom they shall go to be with or His return (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb. 12:22, 23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; Heb. 10:25-39) Glory and thanks be to God.

[75thOVI]

He is risen indeed!

[Elsie]

Nails will tear from palms?

I’d bet the palms were VERY tough - being a carpenter and all.

[21twelve]

“If He wanted, the nails and spear would have simply bounced off.”

I was telling my wife and daughter that. My wife disagreed - that because He was and is God, that He couldn’t disobey Himself. I try not to argue with my wife over such things (she knows more Bible stuff!).

But - if Jesus HAD to go through all of it, and it wasn’t His CHOICE to obey God - that in my mind makes it less of a sacrifice. If Jesus’ life and sacrifice was all just automatic - what meaning does it have?

Oh - and would Satan ever have even tried to tempt Jesus out in the wilderness if Satan knew that there was no way that Jesus would give in to Satan?

[piytar]

IMHO good arguments can be made on both sides of the issue.

Did Christ have a choice or were His actions pre-ordained?

My personal view is a little hard for many people to grasp. Shory version is I believe BOTH views are correct.

I often fall back on physics to help me understand these kinds of things. Without writing a 100-page treatise, short version is wave/particle duality provides some insight. Are photons waves or particles? Answer is both. Sounds contradictory but that’s real physics.

So did Christ have a choice? Yup. But were His actions on the cross pre-ordained (i.e., was he bound to obey God aka Himself)? Yup.

One other take-away for me is God was/is the first entity in this universe who had/has Free Will. He gifted us with that. Now we little mortals often abuse it, but we do have free will. That said, our names are already written — or not — in the Book of Life so our eternal destiny is pre-ordained. So how could it be different for Christ?

Note I’m *really* short circuiting the arguments. Hope my points come through a little bit without being too dense. Also admit I may be wrong. Again, just my views.

PS Yeah, said I’m not a theologian before. Well that was a little bit of a fib. I’ve studied this stuff for decades.

[piytar]

“So how could it be different for Christ?”

Skipped a few steps there. Figured I’d fill one in. Christ as a human incarnation of God was obeying the same rules us humans do: Have Free Will but also have a pre-ordained destiny. The two seem mutually exclusive. They are not. Again, it’s akin to wave/particle duality.

I know, kind of hard for people to wrap their heads around. Trust me, dealing with quantum mechanics can give someone a headache too. Theology can too...

[21twelve]

“Trust me, dealing with quantum mechanics can give someone a headache too. Theology can too...”

I’m not sure about this particular discussion, but a former pastor of mine would discuss things and end the discussion with “So it is mystery.”

I like your comparison to wave/particle theory, and I’m glad you pointed out that Jesus had the same rules we have.

Hmm - going back to that pastor, he said that while we can’t get rid of original sin, it is possible and doable to not willfully sin. Christ did.