Posted on 11/16/2023 6:30:57 PM PST by ebb tide
If we look at the accounts of the Lord’s Supper in the Gospels and 1 Corinthians we don’t find the Roman Catholic version.
One might even call them Saints, Bishops, and Cardinals.
Or one could stay with the biblical definitions….
Jesus does not dwell in physical objects like a wheat wafer or a church building. That is pantheism.
He is seated in bodily form in heaven right now.
The Holy Spirit dwells in the hearts of born again believers and THAT is who makes up the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not a religious organization. It’s spiritually regenerated people.
Arguably the biggest scandal of our lifetime. The only thing close is the total and complete corruption of the U.S. government agencies.
“Religion is free and personal and doesn’t require a church or any clergy.”
Might be applicable if all humans were born as adults and with associated full knowledge as an adult. Under your nonsensical premise, I can easily see the creation of millions of religions, all slightly different than another, and conflicting, but eventually coagulating into “churches” with clergy, anyway.
Prayers for Holy Mother Church.
THIS!
They are not idols.
It is like wearing a cross or a crucifix around your neck.
For religious communities is began as an article of clothing signifying Jesus Christ with His Most Sacred Heart and on the other any image of the Mother of God.
It is encouragement to live a grace filled life for our salvation. It assumes an attachment to and perseverance in prayer and some form of penance, not just the wearing of a physical object.
Again, protestant heretical assumptions that if it is not fit their belief, then they reject it.
I have doubts about whether you fully understand what Jesus taught and God’s truths, as you seem to follow man-made beliefs that are contrary to God’s Truths.
Jesus and the Apostles taught orally and was passed down to us as Sacred Tradition and was later written down into Sacred Scripture. So you can thank the Catholic church for writing down these oral teachings and truths from Jesus.
A “rule of faith” is something that is authoritative for faith, and we have two infallible authorities for the Faith in addition to Scripture. Apostolic Tradition is an infallible source of information regarding it, and the Magisterium is an infallible interpretive authority.
I Corinthians 3:11-15 may well be the most straightforward text in all of Sacred Scripture when it comes to Purgatory:
For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
No Christian sect I know of even attempts to deny this text speaks of the judgment of God where the works of the faithful will be tested after death. It says our works will go through “fire,” figuratively speaking. In Scripture, “fire” is used metaphorically in two ways: as a purifying agent (Mal. 3:2-3; Matt. 3:11; Mark 9:49); and as that which consumes (Matt. 3:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-8). So it is a fitting symbol here for God’s judgment. Some of the “works” represented are being burned up and some are being purified. These works survive or burn according to their essential “quality” (Gr. hopoiov – of what sort).
What is being referred to cannot be heaven because there are imperfections that need to be “burned up” (see again, Rev. 21:27, Hab. 1:13). It cannot be hell because souls are being saved. So what is it? The Protestant calls it “the Judgment” and we Catholics agree. We Catholics simply specify the part of the judgment of the saved where imperfections are purged as “Purgatory.”
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-purgatory-in-the-bible
Do you even believe that Jesus established His Catholic Church with 7 Sacraments as a path for our salvation? That is in the Bible too!
This seems so simple. It’s common sense. Scripture is very clear when it says, “But nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]” (Rev. 21:27). Hab. 1:13 says, “You [God]… are of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wrong…” How many of us will be perfectly sanctified at the time of our deaths? I dare say most of us will be in need of further purification in order to enter the gates of heaven after we die, if, please God, we die in a state of grace.
I hope that you are in the state of grace when you die so that you can enter Purgatory or Heaven.
Your description of this is disingenuous as it doesn’t reflect what the origin of this idol was. You know your information is wrong yet you post it anyway.
An apparition claiming to be Mary made certain promises of avoiding the hellfire IF the wearer followed the rules correctly. In other words it caused the deceived to trust in the words of an apparition over the inspired words of the Bible.
Your comment: “Jesus’ command to people was *Follow Me.* He didn’t say to follow a religion or humans who set themselves up as some kind of spiritual authority.”
Yes, Jesus said “FOLLOW ME” and He said “unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you” John 6:53
Christ established His Catholic Church with 7 Sacraments for our salvation.
No one is going to force you, it is your choice to follow Jesus and His Truths.
Christ’s Truths are in the Catholic faith and there are sinners in the Catholic Church and well as the rest of the world and the protestant religions. Don’t blame or follow the sinners, follow Christ’s Truth.
Your opinion. You show no facts that support that anyone is worshipping a medal or piece of cloth.
The whole Bible and Sacred Tradition is about doing God’s will to avoid Hell.
The Blessed Mother and Jesus have both appeared to help us on the path to salvation.
It is apparent that they appear to Catholics to help us lead more holy lives if we follow them.
Do you pray the Divine Mercy prayer that Jesus gave to St Faustina (approx in 1939)?
The feminization of the church has produced a theology of sentiment devoid of ethics.
Except that is exactly what Roman Catholicism says one must do per Unam Sanctam. All have to be subject to the pope.
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/bon08/b8unam.htm
Yet, on these very forums some of your fellow Roman Catholics are not being subject to the Roman Pontiff.
Yes, Jesus said “FOLLOW ME” and He said “unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you” John 6:53
Roman Catholicism has taken this verse completely out of context when evaluated against the five accounts of the Lord's Supper in the New Testament.
We participate in the Lord's Supper as a remembrance of His sacrifice on the Cross. It is not for salvation as an unsaved person is not to participate in the Lord's Supper.
| Matthew 26:26-29 | Mark 14:22-24 | Luke 22:14-20 | John 13:21-26 | 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 | |||
| 26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29“But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” | 22While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25“Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”. | 14When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. 15And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.”19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. | 21When Jesus had said this, He became troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, that one of you will betray Me.” 22The disciples began looking at one another, at a loss to know of which one He was speaking.23There was reclining on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24So Simon Peter gestured to him, and said to him, “Tell us who it is of whom He is speaking.” 25He, leaning back thus on Jesus’ bosom, said to Him, “Lord, who is it?” 26Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. | 23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. |
Key Phrases/words:
Poured out: In the OT the blood sacrifice was never consumed; it was always poured out. We further have the drink offering which was poured out before God as a sacrifice (Ex 29:40, Numbers 15:4-5).
29.11 ἀνάμνησις, εως f: (derivative of ἀναμιμνῄσκω ‘to cause to remember,’ 29.10) the means for causing someone to remember—‘means of remembering, reminder.’ ἀλλ’ ἐν αὐταῖς ἀνάμνησις ἁμαρτιῶν κατ’ ἐνιαυτόν ‘but in those (sacrifices) there is a yearly reminder of sins’ or ‘… that people have sinned’ He 10:3. Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 347). New York: United Bible Societies.
*****
Further, there is this from the Faith of Millions written by a Roman Catholic priest. The contradiction with Scripture on the nature of His one time sacrifice not to be repeated again and again is noted.
| John O' Brien, Roman Catholic Priest in the Faith of Millions. | Hebrews 9:24-28 | Hebrews 10:11-13 | ||
| When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man—not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest’s command. | 24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. | Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. |
I didn't say they worshiped the idol...I said, "An apparition claiming to be Mary made certain promises of avoiding the hellfire IF the wearer followed the rules correctly. In other words it caused the deceived to trust in the words of an apparition over the inspired words of the Bible."
IF it serves no purpose....why wear it??
The Blessed Mother and Jesus have both appeared to help us on the path to salvation.
Mary plays zero part in a person's salvation. There are no instances in the New Testament of people appealing to Mary or praying to Mary for their salvation.
The apparitions claiming to be Mary are false if one compares their message with what is in inspired Scripture.
Do you pray the Divine Mercy prayer that Jesus gave to St Faustina (approx in 1939)?
Nope. And nor do I pray to her as some have. Nor can we confirm Jesus actually appeared to her.
The Catholic religion is the religion of the Catholic Church—i.e., that group of churches in communion with the pope. If a group isn’t in communion with the pope, it isn’t part of the Catholic Church.
We don't have to be in communion with or be subject to the pope.
We do have to be following Christ, and only Christ.
Jesus command to *Follow Me* was to individuals and not at all connected to His dissertation in John 6, which He did tell us was a metaphor in John 6:63.
And since the consumption of blood is strictly forbidden by God both before the Law, under the Law, and reiterated at the Council at Jerusalem, the Catholic command to drink the blood of Jesus violates every command God gave in Scripture, putting them at odds with God and the Holy Spirit (Acts 15).
But go ahead and think cannibalizing Jesus is the way to be spiritually reborn.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.
It cannot be put any plainer than that. The Spirit gives life. The flesh is NO help at all. Spiritual life is not gotten through the flesh.
Jesus doesn’t help us on the path to salvation. HE ***IS*** the way of salvation. And Mary can’t help either. She does not have the power to do that..
It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict people of sin, enlighten them, and lead them to Jesus so that they might be saved.
Only He can impart spiritual life. Mary cannot do that, nor any other job that only God can do. And you all wonder why people think you deify Mary.
Sheesh, you give her all the attributes of God and the abilities, etc.
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