Catholics Don't Believe You Can Earn Your Way to Heaven

Tradition | 03-06-2022 | CharlesOconnell

[CharlesOConnell]

A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.

In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).

But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.

(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)

The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.

In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.

Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.

How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.

Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.

Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.

At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.

Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)

There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.

It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.

(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)

A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> The Catholic Church does NOT sell indulgences. Where are you getting this mistaken information?

History. Of course it was phrased as a quid pro quo for donations.

Of course only Christ can forgive sin, so donations. Prayers, crusades, to receive indulgences we’re false.

There is no purgatory.

The great news is that any soul who wants to spend eternity in heaven can trust in Christ alone, now.

[imardmd1]

They were, up to a point under the Law, when the counter goes back to zero, but then starts ticking again until the next Yom Kippur under the Law.

That is, until Jesus fulfills all righteousness under the Law, ends its rule over the Jews, and cries out concerning self-obedience in every point of the Law:

"It is finished, once and for all time"

>> Perfect tense, passive voice (= it, the living of a perfect sinless life until the moment of physical death), indicative mode) <<

[metmom]

Revelation 2 & 3 address church bodies that tolerate sin.

Jesus removes them.

[metmom]

Revelation 2 & 3 address church bodies that tolerate sin.

Jesus removes them.

Which actually disproves the Catholic’s claim that their church is somehow being protected in its sin by the Holy Spirit.

If they were a true church, based on Scriptural precedent, their candlestick would have been removed LONG ago for the reprehensible sexual sin that infests it.

[metmom]

God waits for all sinners to return to Him and He is joyful. Think about it, please.

No, He doesn’t wait.

He actively draws men to Himself.

God doesn’t sit passively by waiting for us to make the first move.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> He actively draws men to Himself.

+1

[af_vet_1981]

The Son of Man has the power to forgive sins.

As do the Apostles

John 20:20-23
King James Version
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Which it seems that Catholicism doesn’t believe, considering that they still demand that sins be worked off in Purgatory.

No; not work, but rather a purifying fire; here is the actual text:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608 1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

[Luircin]

Maybe Roman Catholicism does not currently sell indulgences, but they used to, and the sin was never repented of.

I know it wasn’t repented of because my ancestors got swindled by Catholic indulgence hawkers, and I’m still waiting for the Vatican to give my family our money back!

Adjusting for inflation and interest payments, I should personally own 18% of St. Peter’s Basilica by now.

[Luircin]

I have a hard time seeing the difference, especially when it’s supposedly possible to release them from Purgatory early.

[Luircin]

I have returned to Christ already—though it was the Lord who moved me to do so—and I am joyful.

Now I continue to pray that I grow in the faith, obey God’s will out of love for him and my neighbor, and that I do not grieve my heavenly Father by falling into sin.

But if I do sin, I still have an advocate with the Father, who is Jesus Christ, whose blood covers all my sin.

[metmom]

But they are all dead, even if that was true.

However, GOD Himself forgives us our sins so an earthly, sinful, human intermediary is not necessary.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[Elsie]

Elsie, you’re an old guy like MHGinTN,

That's right; so don't mess with us!

[Elsie]

Matthew 25:6, 13

6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
.
.
.

13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

[Luircin]

I don’t know exactly how that relates to my post, but that’s still a good admonition nonetheless!

[Elsie]

Acts 10:44-48 niv

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

---

Dang!

Here are some folks who got the Holy Spirit BEFORE they were baptized!

I wonder why they needed to be baptized then???

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> As do the Apostles.

No.

“Nowhere in the Book of Acts or in the Epistles do we find any instance of an apostle remitting the sins of anyone. They do go everywhere, proclaiming the forgiveness of sins.” (JVM)

“The second part of each conditional clause in this verse is in the passive voice and the perfect tense in the Greek text. The passive voice indicates that someone has already done the forgiving or retaining. That person must be God since He alone has the authority to do that (Matt. 9:2–3; Mark 2:7; Luke 5:21). The perfect tense indicates that the action has continuing effects; the sins stand forgiven or retained at least temporarily if not permanently.” (TC)

[Elsie]

WOW!

Talk about being late to the party!

[MHGinTN]

I see Gregory’s mythos has you enthralled.

[Elsie]

NOW you are getting up to speed!

https://stpaulrepository.com/2013/11/29/catechism-of-the-catholic-church-section-2-20-the-theology-of-indulgences-1471-1474-by-fr-guy-de-gaynesford/

[MHGinTN]

Have you visited her profile page? ... 1100!