Jehovah’s Witnesses Leader: COVID-19 Signals the “Last Day of the Last Days” rapture

Patheos ^ | 20 march | He meant mehta

[Cronos]

In case you’re wondering how some religions are coping with the outbreak of COVID-19, just look to the Jehovah’s Witnesses to see how absurd reactions can get.

In a recent video featuring Governing Body member Stephen Lett, he absolutely delights in the disease because he sees it as a signal that Armageddon is imminent.

So the events unfolding around us are making clear, [more] than ever, that we’re living in the final part of the Last Days. Undoubtedly, the final part of the final part of the Last Days, shortly before the last day of the Last Days.

[Philsworld]

“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭ESV‬‬

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I agree 100%

Unsaved to the moment of salvation = saved by grace only.
WORKS HAS NO IMPACT ON GRACE. It is a free gift of God. (faith unto salvation).

Moment of salvation to judgement is a whole different story. If you talk the talk, you had better walk the walk. Faith without works is a dead faith and God calls you a liar. You will not be in heaven.

[Philsworld]

Why won’t any of these people give a straight answer?

What do you think “people” have been doing all this
time??? Just because someone doesn’t agree with you or say what you want to hear doesn’t mean nobody is giving a straight answer.

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No, they haven’t.

If Ravi raped all those women is he RESPONSIBLE for that sin in terms of his judgment? Is rape a sin for a born againer? Can a born againer sin? Is that sin held against him if he is UNREPENTANT? Can a born againer commit any WILLFUL sin and still expect to enter heaven, IF HE IS UNREPENTANT? If a born againer can’t sin, does that make him perfect? Does repentance even matter to him or needed? Why ask forgiveness if you can’t sin?

Answer those questions please.

[MHGinTN]

So you think God needs you to add soemthing to the righteousness of Christ in order to make it through to final salvation? Do you even have a clue that your religion of seventh day adventist is making Salvation CONDITIONAL? No, that truth escapes your spirit.

Phil, GRACE is unconditional else it is not Grace. There is ONE requirement to receive God's Grace, believe. Believe in Christ and you will be saved, as Paul told the crust, tough Phillipian jailer.

If my old memory is serving me, in John's Gospel 'believe' is stated 99 times to obtain Salvation. Not one of those tiims is anything added in order to receive The Grace of God in Christ Jesus.

When a person is born again, born from above, the righteousness of Christ is IMPUTED to that person's spirit. There is not any thing that you or I can do to improve on that righteousness, nothing we could add to make us more righteous. And because we have that righteousness sealed to our spirit, THAT SPIRIT cannot sin. Someone who does not have that righteousness IMPUTED to their spirit is a lost soul in need of GRACE.

Regardless of you pride, believing you must add to Grace, add to the righteousness God promises for believing in Whom He sent for your salvation, the TRUTH is Salvation is something ONLY God can do for you and by His Promised Presence in your born again spirit He is the only One Who can retain His Presence in your spirit, so there is nothing of law keeping or any other cultish rigor which will or can add to what ONLY God can do.

[boatbums]

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Are you thinking that is talking about heaven??? Read Revelation 22. What/where is this city it's talking about? What is the river of the Water of Life flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the main street of the city? What is the purpose of "The Tree of Life" that bears twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations? If this is heaven, why will anyone need healing?

Scripture says, "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Doesn't sound to me like heaven. Do you think cats will be allowed?

[boatbums]

Your eternal salvation and God’s reward has then been decided based on your life and WORKS, as God clearly says in Revelation 22. You didn’t keep his commandments and show the fruits of your love to him by works? Oopsie.

Oopsie...you just revealed that you believe in work-based salvation. You denied this in the past. Are you now being honest?

[Iscool]

So born againers CANNOT sin as humans on this earth? IS THAT YOUR FINAL ANSWER???
Why don’t you ping all your buddies again so they can help get you out of the hole you dug for yourself?

Here's the sinner on his way up after he has left his sinful body laying back there on the ground:

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 

Do you see any sin mentioned in there??? No you don't...This judgment isn't about sin...It's about cleaning you up and getting rid of everything but the gold...So when the Father sees you he sees pure gold; perfection...
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Jer 23:29  Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?  

It's not a real fire...It's the word of God, the scriptures that will judge us...

Joh 12:48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

So do you see anything in there about sin or punishment for sin??? No you don't because there is no judgment for sin when he/she meets Jesus...

1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 

Have any good works...Plowed, planted and watered for Jesus??? You're in line for some rewards...

1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 

You see any punishment in there??? Nope...None...You see any sin mentioned??? Nope...None...What is the loss then??? It is the loss of heavenly rewards..

Now to continue on, this is before the Christian dies, before he goes up to see Jesus:

1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 

It is your flesh/body that is the Temple of God...The one left laying on the ground after you died...

1Co 3:17  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 

OUCH...There's the punishment for sin for the Christian...On Earth...Not after you're dead and go to meet Jesus...

[boatbums]

Previous post:

Your eternal salvation and God’s reward has then been decided based on your life and WORKS, as God clearly says in Revelation 22. You didn’t keep his commandments and show the fruits of your love to him by works? Oopsie.

This post:

WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW. Literally, “without works of law.” In the Greek, “law” stands without the article (see on ch. 2:12). The meaning of this phrase is clear in the context of the whole chapter. The basis of every false religious system has been the mistaken idea that justification could be obtained by obedience to law. But works of law cannot atone for past sins. Justification cannot be earned. It can only be received by faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ. Therefore, in this sense, works of law have nothing to do with justification. To be justified without there being anything in ourselves to merit justification.... But he makes it equally clear that these good works do not earn justification (see Rom. 4:2, 6; 9:32; 11:6; Gal. 2:16; 3:2, 5, 10; Eph. 2:9; 2 Tim. 1:9).

Sounds like you're contradicting yourself here. Care to elaborate?

[MHGinTN]

Placemarker

[boatbums]

No, they haven’t. If Ravi raped all those women is he RESPONSIBLE for that sin in terms of his judgment? Is rape a sin for a born againer? Can a born againer sin? Is that sin held against him if he is UNREPENTANT? Can a born againer commit any WILLFUL sin and still expect to enter heaven, IF HE IS UNREPENTANT? If a born againer can’t sin, does that make him perfect? Does repentance even matter to him or needed? Why ask forgiveness if you can’t sin? Answer those questions please.

Yes, they have. You don't accept the answer which is the born again believer in Christ has a new, spirit nature - born of the Spirit, indwelt by the Holy Spirit - which strives against the old carnal nature (see Paul's example in Romans 7). It is this new spirit nature that is IN CHRIST, clothed in HIS righteousness, it cannot be stained with sin, it is holy, set apart, sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. This doesn't mean the old sin nature doesn't crop up and cause trouble. We can have victory only through Christ over that slavery to sin. You nor I know what was in Ravi's heart or what really happened. It's easy for people to judge and condemn a person who is no longer able to defend himself.

• If Ravi raped all those women is he RESPONSIBLE for that sin in terms of his judgment? Of course! He will answer to God for it (perhaps his illness and death were a result, I don't know). But that sin like all our sin is under the blood of Christ - HE paid the penalty for it. There is no eternal condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. There ARE consequences for disobedience in the here and now. We can't hide from God.

• Is rape a sin for a born againer? Of course!

• Can a born againer sin? Of course!

• Is that sin held against him if he is UNREPENTANT? God will discipline and chastise His children. Some He may even take home before they can cause anymore scandal to the cause of Christ (see the example Paul gave of the Corinthian guy who was fooling around with his father's wife). We cannot become UN-born again. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of our redemption. He will never leave us or forsake us, lose us or cast us out. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

• Can a born againer commit any WILLFUL sin and still expect to enter heaven, IF HE IS UNREPENTANT? We aren't saved because we are good enough, we are saved because Christ died for sinners. Abstaining from sin doesn't save you, faith does because of GRACE.

• If a born againer can’t sin, does that make him perfect? We aren't "perfect" because we don't sin, we are made perfect and righteous as Christ by grace through faith and not by works.

• Does repentance even matter to him or needed? Of course it does. It matters in our relationship with our Heavenly Father, it matters with our testimony to the world, it matters to brothers and sisters in Christ. If we truly love God and grasp the magnitude of His awesome mercy, love and grace then it will show in how we live each day. He is working within us constantly to conform us to the image of Christ for His own glory. But we can't ever come close to meriting or deserving salvation - that's why it is by grace.

• Why ask forgiveness if you can’t sin? Because stubbornness only will bring us chastisement and grief. Why not be at peace and enjoy the wonder of being in a right relationship with the Creator who loves us so much He knows how many hairs we have on our head and every tear we have ever cried. Why wouldn't we want to know Him better? Why wouldn't we want to know that He makes all things work together for our good? Why wouldn't we want to live in a way that honors Him out of gratitude for His unspeakable gift? We are told to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. A genuine believer WILL see a change in the way he/she thinks, lives, relates to others and God. If there is nothing there that indicates a new birth has occurred - that sin still reigns over us and we are powerless against it, then we ought to get down on our knees and surrender our hearts to Christ. Come to Him in faith and ask Him to save us. A true faith cannot help but be revealed in a newness of life - a changed heart and mind that seeks to know God more and more.

Now...will you stop with the "why won't any of these people give a straight answer"? Accept or reject my answers but don't keep asserting nobody has tried yet.

[metmom]

Moment of salvation to judgement is a whole different story. If you talk the talk, you had better walk the walk. Faith without works is a dead faith and God calls you a liar. You will not be in heaven

Nonsense. If you don’t make it to heaven, you aren’t saved. No such thing as coming to salvation and going to hell. Hell is what we are saved from.

Christ didn’t die so that on accepting Him we’d be put back under the Law. We were already under the Law before we came to Him, that’s why we weren’t saved.

The Law wasn’t given to us as a means of salvation. It was given to us to show us God’s holy standard, that we could not meet it and we needed a Savior. It was given to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by FAITH, not by works.

We are not saved by grace, kept by works. It’s saved by grace, kept by grace. It’s grace all the way.

Read Galatians 2&3 for your edification. Paul explains it all there.

Christ died to put us all back under the bondage of law keeping? What idiocy!

[Hootowl]

Nothing in the Bible says we’re going to heaven. The afterlife for Christians will be the new earth.

[Hootowl]

Don’t know why this is an issue. Of course born again Christians can sin. It’s human nature.

[metmom]

Then I guess Jesus isn’t in heaven eh?

Philippians 1:21-23 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

[Hootowl]

Perhaps you missed the part about Jesus being God? Going further, though, the Bible clearly states that Jesus returns to earth at the end of the tribulations and reigns on earth. Really, people who don’t read the Bible shouldn’t try to argue about it.

[Elsie]

Why don’t you ping all your buddies again so they can help get you out of the hole you dug for yourself?

(Iscool; metmom; imardmd1; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; boatbums; caww; SouthernClaire; daniel1212;Roman-War-Criminal;), etc...

Oh NO!

Not me; for in all this fussing back and forth I have lost count of how many angels can dance on a pin.

I'll have to start counting again at one.

See you guys later...

[Elsie]

Wasn’t it the Catholics who ‘discussed’ for a great length whether or not to even include James in the Bible?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_of_James

[Elsie]

Nothing?

[metmom]

No, I didn't miss that part.

Where do you think God is?

And yes, Jesus comes back to earth, and He brings His saints with Him. So where have they been this whole time?

Besides, in Revelation, when John is in heaven, he sees saints standing there.

Revelation 7:9-14 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[Elsie]

Going further, though, the Bible clearly states that Jesus returns to earth at the end of the tribulations and reigns on earth.

And THEN what happens?

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“And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years . . . blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years” 

Revelation 20:4

 

 

⁷ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

⁸ And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

¹⁰ And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

¹¹ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

¹³ And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

¹⁴ And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

¹⁵ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Philsworld]

Nonsense. If you don’t make it to heaven, you aren’t saved. No such thing as coming to salvation and going to hell. Hell is what we are saved from.

Christ didn’t die so that on accepting Him we’d be put back under the Law. We were already under the Law before we came to Him, that’s why we weren’t saved.

The Law wasn’t given to us as a means of salvation. It was given to us to show us God’s holy standard, that we could not meet it and we needed a Savior. It was given to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by FAITH, not by works.

We are not saved by grace, kept by works. It’s saved by grace, kept by grace. It’s grace all the way.

---

Wrong!

Hebrews 10
26For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.