No Telling What We Will Face

RR ^ | 1/24/21 | Daymond Duck

[Ezekiel]

What irks me is that my keyboard has a mind of its own -- letters and words are always trying to rearrange themselves.. I suppose there's probably some "sensitivity" setting buried somewhere, IDK. Maybe I keep triggering a mystery shortcut pattern that is editing my typing, or my fingers are typing in reverse order as some kind of running joke.

Anyhoo, I do know how to spell "Pharaoh". It's even one of those words I think out as I type so I don't mess up the order/spelling, like the word "height".

As for the reality of history or proving history...

People argue about that stuff all of the time. Meanwhile, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the God of the living.

The living live in the time of the present. It's the most fleeting of time frames, yet it is where everyone is (or is supposed to be) grounded in reality because it's right there in the present time of observation. No guesswork or theorizing required.

That's where all the fun is because everyone knows that the Ark of the Covenant is archived but long lost inside a US Government warehouse, and that the Ark's location is a famous absurdity.

God -- what a card. He could never make a movie in this day and age!

No Telling What We Will Face

[Terry L Smith]

Best watch that switching letters.
I found out in ‘98 when i wanted or needed to type fast, it would show up.
At the time i was a health benefits examiner, so my work was noticed, and my office boss asked me if i was dyslexic.
The trait does pop up now, being retired, too.

[Cronos]

RomanWarCrim -- your author Duck doesn't know anything about financial ratings if he writes Eight, the Bible teaches that Israel will be a prosperous nation with silver and gold, cattle and goods in the latter years and latter days (Ezek. 38).

On Jan. 14, 2021, it was reported that 3 international credit rating agencies (Fitch, S&P, and Moody’s) have given Israel an “A+” credit rating despite the problems caused by Covid.

A+ for Fitch is a level FIVE Rating

1. AAA
2. AA+
3. AA
4. AA-
5. A+

[Cronos]

Lee We're not unique. What did God's people face in Russia, in 1917, when a godless communist revolution took over a country that had been Christian for almost a thousand years?

True. Or the citizens of Constantinople when it fell to the Jihadis in 1453 after being the capital of Christendom for over 1000 years?

Or the Assyrian Christians in the 13th century who were slaughtered by Timur E Lang

[Cronos]

What is unique is Israel is now a nation after disappearing for almost 2000 years.

Err... Israel briefly reappeared after the Arab invasions.

Also Israel has been a country for 72 years. That's two generations

Furthermore you say "End time prophecy, which the Bible for some reason does place significant emphasis on, cannot take place without Israel being a nation." -- Israel never ceased to be a nation - but a nation without a state.

Furthermore the only end time prophecies that rely upon Israel as a separate country are those in Daniel - which talk about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD

Or are you somehow thinking that Daniel would not talk about the 2nd temple (then not yet built) to be destroyed in 70 AD?

[Cronos]

expect things to continue on as it has for generations.

What are you talking about? There has been nothing but monumental change since the mid 1800s. Each generation since then has had it different.

[Terry L Smith]

That’s nice.

I don’t care about Israel, until they get punished for the doo-doo over the USS Liberty.

[Maudeen]

What a list!

[Cronos]

I do care about Israel from a number of positions

It is good that much of the Holy Land is no longer in Muslim hands

Israel is also a good ally - Liberty notwithstanding.

[zek157]

AMOS 9
11“In that day
I will restore David’s fallen shelter—
I will repair its broken walls
and restore its ruins—
and will rebuild it as it used to be,
12so that they may possess the remnant of Edom
and all the nations that bear my name, e ”
declares the Lord, who will do these things.
13“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,

“when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
14and I will bring my people Israel back from exile. f
“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”

Never to be uprooted again means this didn’t happen following previous dispersions.

Ezekiel 37 -39 must be very confusing for you as you believe all end time prophecy thats dependent on Israel being a nation has been fulfilled in AD 70.

That doesn’t quite fit with Ezekiel 39. 25Therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Now will I bring back the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for my holy name. 26And they shall bear their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they shall dwell securely in their land, and none shall make them afraid; 27when I have brought them back from the peoples, and gathered them out of their enemies lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations. 28And they shall know that I am Jehovah their God, in that I caused them to go into captivity among the nations, and have gathered them unto their own land; and I will leave none of them any more there; 29neither will I hide my face any more from them; for I have poured out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord Jehovah.

Psalm 90 9For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: We bring our years to an end as a sigh.

10The days of our years are threescore years and ten, Or even by reason of strength fourscore years; Yet is their pride but labor and sorrow; For it is soon gone, and we fly away.

11Who knoweth the power of thine anger, And thy wrath according to the fear that is due unto thee?

12So teach us to number our days, That we may get us a heart of wisdom.

Jesus spoke of a generation that would not pass once they saw Israel become a nation again. Looks to me this could safely be 70-80 years based on psalm 90.

“ Jesus told the disciples to watch the fig tree. When they saw it bloom again, it would mark His soon return. The fig tree is a symbol of the nation of Israel (Hosea 9:10; Jeremiah 24:1-10; Joel 1:7; Luke 13:6-9). The blooming of the fig tree was symbolic of Israel “blooming” into a nation again. Jesus stated when they saw these things to know that His return is near and that He would be waiting at the gate of heaven, waiting for the command from the Father to return (Matthew 24:33). He went on to say that this generation shall not pass until all these things happen (Matthew 24:34). He was referring to the generation that sees the fig tree blossom. The wrath of God was poured out on the Jews in 70 AD and they were driven into exile away from the promised land. But after 1,878 years, Israel blossomed into a nation again on May 14, 1948 as fulfillment of this prophecy.”

If you don’t believe in end time prophesy why do you has so many incorrect and inane comments?

[zek157]

We know that is not true for the current time based on Daniel 12-4. My statement was a concession to the poster I was responding to, even if not entirely accurate. His comment was more in line with 2nd Tim 3-3 if I’m not mistaken regarding nothing changing , so I responded as such.

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased

[Cronos]

"why do you has so many"??? Do you speak English? What are you trying to say?

You write What is unique is Israel is now a nation after disappearing for almost 2000 years.

And completely forget that Israel has been a country for 72 years. That's two generations

Furthermore you say "End time prophecy, which the Bible for some reason does place significant emphasis on, cannot take place without Israel being a nation." -- Israel never ceased to be a nation - but a nation without a state.

Do you think that Israel as a nation disappeared and there were no Jews in Yemen, in Bassein, in Spain etc. until 1948???

[Cronos]

Furthermore the only end time prophecies that rely upon Israel as a separate country are those in Daniel - which talk about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD

Daniel's prophecies were read clearly by all Jews as ending in the 1st century, hence the proliferation of purported Jewish "Messiahs" - from Judas the Galilean to Simon Bar Kochkba -- and all failed as they promised earthly Messianic "salvation" -- only ONE succeeded who was the rock unhewn by human hand --> Jesus and became the mountain covering the earth -- the Church, Christianity

Have you read the book of Daniel??

[Cronos]

Then you quote Amos 9

When was Amos written? It was written in 750 BC before the destruction of the northern tribes.

Furthermore look at every line - AMos talks of the return of the Jews from BABYLONIAN EXILE in 500 BC

• "I will restore David's fallen shelter -- repair its walls" --> have you read Nehemiah or Maccabbees? The Jews DID that after returning in 500 BC - they rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem

  That they may posses the remnant of Edom --> in 100 BC the Jews conquered Edom and forcibly converted the Idumeans/Edomites to Judaism - that included Herod the Great's father. This was the "possess the remnant of Edom"

  "Never again to be uprooted" --> And what happened after 70 AD and the destruction of the temple? Jews REMAINED in Israel -- Jerusalem was destroyed but Jews remained

  And what happened in 132 AD? Jews conquered the Roman city built on top of Jerusalem and had a brief new statelet of Israel

  And what happened AFTER 132 AD? The RABBINICAL Jews were turned out, but the Jesus-movement Jews (Christians) remained. Yes, the Christians of Jewish blood remained in Israel, never to be uprooted again

[Cronos]

Jesus spoke of a generation that would not pass UNTIL JESUS CAME BACK IN GLORY AND JUDGEMENT - as happened in 70 AD,

have you read the Bible?

Matthew 12:39
He said to them in reply, “An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.

Matthew 12:45
Then it goes and brings back with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they move in and dwell there; and the last condition of that person is worse than the first. Thus it will be with this evil generation.”

Matthew 16:4
An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Then he left them and went away.

Matthew 17:17
Jesus said in reply, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long will I be with you? How long will I endure you? Bring him here to me.

Matthew 23:36
Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 24:34
Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.

---

Have you read the Bible?

Jesus very, very clearly points out to the people listening to him in 30 AD that THAT generation will not pass away until the destruction of the temple happens (24:1 to 30)

[Cronos]

Let's look at the entire passage yes

[1] And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple. [2] And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed. [3] And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world? [4] And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: [5] For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many.

[6] And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [7] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places: [8] Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows. [9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name's sake. [10] And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.

[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. [12] And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold. [13] But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. [14] And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come. [15] When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.

[16] Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains: [17] And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat. [19] And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days. [20] But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath.

[21] For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. [22] And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened. [23] Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him. [24] For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [25] Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.

[26] If therefore they shall say to you: Behold he is in the desert, go ye not out: Behold he is in the closets, believe it not. [27] For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be. [28] Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together. [29] And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.

[31] And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them. [32] And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender, and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh. [33] So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors. [34] Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. [35] Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass.

In this Jesus answers two questions "When will the 2nd temple be destroyed"

The opening verses of the Olivet discourse set the scene for this - they left the temple and His disciples ask him about the temple

Jesus answer Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down - this was done by the Roman legions under Titus and is the final fulfilment of Micha 3:12

Therefore, because of you,
Zion shall be plowed like a field,
and Jerusalem reduced to rubble,
And the mount of the temple
to a forest ridge.

The Olivet discourse then talks about the 8 signs that Jesus said would lead to the Temple's destruction that were important for the Apostles to recognize

1. Sign 1: false messiahs - Matt 24:4-5 -- Up to 70 AD there were several supposed messiahs in Judea who led armies against the legions. They were killed with their followers. At the time of the Jewish captivity, there were many leaders who declared themselves to be Christs (Messiahs), so that while the Romans were actually besiegin them, there were three factions within - and Joseph mentions them as "Imposters and deceivers persuaded the multitude to follow them into the wilderness, and pretended that they would exhibit manifest wonders and signs that should be performed by the providence of God. And many that were prevailed on by them suffered the punishments of their folly""
   
   
2. Sign 2: Wars You will hear of wars and rumors of wars Matt 24:6 - there was civil war in Rome itself
   
   
3. Sign 3: famines - during the war the Jews in Jerusalem underwent a severe famine - St. Paul wrote about it in his letter to the Corinthians (2 Cor 8)
   
   
4. Sign 4: earthquakes erupted frequently - the city of Colossae was destroyed in an earthquake in the 50s. And Pompeii had one in 63 AD (the same Pompeii that was destroyed by volcano in 79 AD)
   
   
5. sign 5: persecution - Matthew 24:9 - Nero's persecution killed Peter and Paul
   
   
6. Sign 6: Apostasy - Matthew 24:10-12 - this is reflected in Revelations 2 about the Nicolaitians
   
   
7. Sign 7 - the gospel worldwide. What did Paul say in Rom 1:8? First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world and in Col 1:5-6 First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world in Paul's mind there was no doubt that the gospel had gone out into the whole world Clement wrote in 73 AD that Peter and Paul had been martyred, but not before they "taught righteousness to the whole world, and they came to the extreme limit of the west" -- the word used for "world" is oikoumene - which specifically means the civilized world i.e. the Roman Empire - the Olivet discourse does not use the world "Kosmos" that designates the entire earth.
   
   Kosmos in Matt 24:21 From the beginning of the world (kosmos) until now"
   
   
8. Sign 8: Daniel's desolating sacrilege. Matt 24:15-19. Note that the Sanhedrin believed that this had been fulfilled in 167 BC, but that did not meet Daniel's prophecy of 3.5 years

   Jesus then mentions in 24:21 the Great Tribulation - which is for the Jesus-movement Jews.
   
   There has never been, nor will there ever be anything rivaling it. The Church was close to being smothered in its cradle if Nero continued and the Jerusalem Christians had not escaped to Pella - this was a tiny community, primarily Jewish and was attacked by both the Roman authorities AND the Jewish authorities. That WAS the great tribulation

THEN, in Matt 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved - This is apocalyptic language exactly referring to Isaiah 13:10-13 The stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising and the moon will not shed its light... I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place" - Jesus is foretelling the overthrow of nero and the Sanhedrin. He draws a parallel between the shaking of Babylon and the shaking of Jerusalem (and that's the basis of John's vision in the book of revelations)

This is also reflected in Haggai 2:6-7 Thus says that Lord of hosts: Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land; and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the Lord of hosts

This splendor is Christ and the house is the Church. The Sanhedrin was uprooted forever, never to be validly re-established again.

[Cronos]

What is Daniel 12:4 “As for you, Daniel, keep secret the message and seal the book until the end time; many shall wander aimlessly and evil shall increase.” -- and what is that entire chapter 12 talking about? Daniel is being told about a very specific knowledge, not scientific knowledge, which will interpret his visions --> knowledge of the Messiah's kingdom established by Jesus in the 1st century. -- cars and iPhones are fantabulous but those aren't what Daniel had in mind.

[MHGinTN]

God does not have any Plan Bs.

Those of the Body of Christ Believers are Promised to be kept from even the hour (time) of the wrath/testing. Why? Because God's wrath is for the unbelievers who have rejected so great a gift as Jesus. By His plan, a number come to Heaven out of the Tribulation, a number so great that John could not write it ... but we know he could count to two hundred million when he saw that hell-bent army going to attack Israel.

The tribulation is a seven year period of increasing wrath from God. Becoming one of the Body of Christ is so simple, yet the pride of so many refuses to just accept the gift of eternal life by believing in Whom God sent for our salvation. You don't even have to do it in public because nothing is hidden from God.

Jesus introduced the concept of the Rapture of The Body of Christ Believers in the Upper Room (John 13 %14) Discourse after Judas left to betray Him.

Paul taught the Departure of Believers to even the youngest of converts to Christ. Believing that Great Departure is going to happen is an important doctrine because it implies immanency, so we ought live like it is about to happen and we don't want the horrific embarrassment of not living as if Jesus is coming right away for you. It also is important because it lends a sense of urgency to try and reach those we love, so they do not face the Tribulation which follows the Great Departure of the Body of Believers.

Jesus didn't die to save good people. He didn't die for average people. He die for ALL people, but only those who accept His gift of eternal life by faith alone in Christ alone will inherit the Greatest Gift in all the Universe.

[patriot torch]

Amen.

[zek157]

It makes zero sense if this only talks to Antiochus IV desecration and Roman destruction of the temple. I may be wrong, and apologize beforehand, but it appears to me that you fail to understand any scripture related to the 7 year tribulation, which is also Daniels missing week of years. Daniels 70th week was cut off with the crucifixion of our Lord to provide us the Church age. Still 70 weeks, but interrupted.

[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.

-when did the above occur? How do the following passages correspond with your limited interpretation of Matt 38 and the not so great commission to spread the gospel? Luke 24 45 -49 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high” Acts 1.4-8 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised,“Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth”. John 20 21-23 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” What were the Lord’s instructions to His apostles? Preach to the Roman world, or the entire world? John 3:16 if you continue this line does it mean Jesus died for the Roman world only?