Posted on 11/02/2019 8:30:32 AM PDT by Antoninus
The idea of Purgatory as an intermediary state between Heaven and Hell is one of the most misunderstood and occasionally ridiculed aspects of Catholic doctrine. Though it is common for Protestants and even some Catholics to assume that Purgatory has no foundation in Sacred Scripture, that claim is actually false. The need for Purgatory developed from a close reading of Scripture by the Fathers of the Church, and the concept has a provenance stretching back to the earliest days of the Church. Furthermore, it has come to my attention recently that the Orthodox have a similar understanding of the need for purification before entering Heaven, even if their understanding of that purgation is not the same as that of the Catholic Church.
See Part II of this post here.
One of the earliest accounts of a Purgatory-like place comes from an unexpected source, indeed one of the Mothers of the Church, rather than one of the Fathers. Dating from about AD 203, the authentic account of the Passion of Saint Perpetua details a poignant vision which Perpetua experienced immediately prior to her martyrdom. The words of this early Christian martyr, as written in Latin in her prison diary, speak for themselves:
After a few days, while we were all praying, on a sudden, in the middle of our prayer, there came to me a word, and I named Dinocrates. And I was amazed that that name had never come into my mind until then, and I was grieved as I remembered his misfortune. And I felt myself immediately to be worthy, and to be called on to ask on his behalf. And for him I began earnestly to make supplication, and to cry with groaning to the Lord.Without delay, on that very night, this was shown to me in a vision. I saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid color, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age who died miserably with disease—his face being so eaten out with cancer, that his death caused repugnance to all men. For him I had made my prayer, and between him and me there was a large interval, so that neither of us could approach to the other. And moreover, in the same place where Dinocrates was, there was a pool full of water, having its brink higher than was the stature of the boy, and Dinocrates raised himself up as if to drink. And I was grieved that, although that pool held water, still, on account of the height to its brink, he could not drink. And I was aroused, and knew that my brother was in suffering. But I trusted that my prayers would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then was the birthday of Geta Cæsar, and I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me.
Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me. I saw that that place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright, and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. And where there had been a wound, I saw a scar, and that pool which I had before seen, I saw now with its margin lowered even to the boy's navel. And one drew water from the pool incessantly, and upon its brink was a goblet filled with water. And Dinocrates drew near and began to drink from it, and the goblet did not fail. And when he was satisfied, he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment.
While mysterious and certainly not covering all of the Catholic Church's criteria for Purgatory, Perpetua's vision seems to confirm the belief that the souls of the dead benefit from the prayers of the living, particularly those about to endure martyrdom for the sake of Christ.
Update: September 4, 2018:
The Passion of Saints Perpetua and Felicitas is related in full in I Am a Christian: Authentic Accounts of Christian Martyrdom and Persecution from the Ancient Sources. This book is a collection of the best ancient sources on the persecution of early Christians and well worth having if you are interested in this topic.
Some additional sources on the origin of Purgatory, including a large excerpt from Pope Saint Gregory the Great who formalized much of what we believe about Purgatory today, will be included in a subsequent post.
They all speak about the same things, but from many different perspectives.
For example, I learn a lot about talking with God and how God works by listening to Joel Osteen’s sermons while driving.
He starts them by saying this:
“This is my Bible.Works for me.
I am what it says I am.
I have what it says I have.
I can do what it says I can do.”
...
God pours His Grace on all of us, so I imagine everyone has at least something of value to pass along.
However, I find that listening while suspending judgment is hard for me to do, but I’m getting better at it.
With respects
Praise Jesus
I was reading that there are some remnants around this country...but, I assume they had they heyday back then.
Try substituting Andy Woods for the Joe; Osteen listening. Osteen is not a God ordained Teacher. His prosperity gospel is not the Gospel of Salvation, for it appeals to the carnal nature not the spiritual.
You seem to know a lot about Joel Osteen. Do you listen to him often?
No, discerning his spiritual source was enough to avoid him and his heretical preaching.
But in between and while hanging out in God’s waiting room with my mom waiting for her departure flight to arrive, I started listening to him for the first time.
I was wrong about him and I regret my earlier statements of other people’s opinions masquerading as my own.
The post I was responding to had this opinion:
“... So what does an education mean? One can study scripture without an institution.”My post was my own experience agreeing with him and I cited my experience with Joel Osteen, since Osteen triggers so many, with my specific reasons why.
To which, I will add that, in some of the sermons I heard at that time, I found the right dosage of God and His Healing when I really needed it.
Some of you guys are too harsh for such tender moments, but he’s not and I needed that then. For that, I am grateful and am saying so.
I’ts just my opinion, and you’re welcome to add it to your own .. or not.
It seems to me I remember someone’s tagline, that said Joel Osteen is a preacher, like Colonel Sanders was an Army Officer. Osteen is a fake.
Do you know what is the Gospel as received from the Apostles? If you are knowledgable of that Truth, thye deceit of Osteen glares when you listen to him. If you do not know Te Truth (Jesus) then lots of false teaching sounds good on the face of it, but Christ is not in it.
6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.[John 10]
I see by your posts that you have chosen to not include my opinion with yours.
:)
Perhaps you have wonder if God can use apostates. If you were comforted by something Osteen said, then you have an answer. God can use even the apostate to work His will.
And specifically through the things Osteen says and how I receive them, I see how the Holy Spirit works in me.
Thanks for helping me to explain why I used him for an example.
Is Jesus the only way to God? Osteen tells Larry King that there are other ways.
Do you believe the name it and claim it doctrine? Scripture does not support this childish perspective.
Do you believe Mormonism is Christian? The Jesus of Mormonism is not the same Jesus as we meet in the Bible (satan and Jesus are not brothers as Mormonism teaches).
Try locating DTBM teaching on youtube regarding the prosperity gospel, if you actually want truth. You will find out if you want the truth or the itchy ear preaching of false teachers.
You can find that God spoke of Joel Osteen and Kenneth Copeland, and Creflo Dollar, and the prosperity gospel teachers who grow rich deceiving... well you know the ones spoken of in Jeremiah 23.
See how this makes it easier to understand our liberal friends and family when they hear “Trump”?
God indeed works in mysterious ways, often using the least likely such as Joel Osteen to do His Work and all to His Glory.
Kinda cool, huh?
Probably not ... ‘no such thing as Purgatory’ ...
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