Posted on 10/21/2019 9:25:59 AM PDT by Antoninus
What’s the Vatican response to this
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3787834/posts
and this;
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3787853/posts
and this
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3787838/posts
What’s the Vatican response to this
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3787834/posts
and this;
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3787853/posts
and this
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3787838/posts
You have no idea the names, the characters, or the affiliations of the anonymous men who carried out this cleansing of the temple.
"Prideful, self-righteous trads," he explained.
The Catechism has a word for this: calumny. It's a lazy way to avoid thinking or arguing from evidence: just exclude the others-- no matter who they are -- by labeling them as unfit to be in the discussion, attributing to them only the worst motivations.
Calumny is a sin against the virtues of justice & charity. It's also a way, not to advance, but to kill a conversation. Is this what you intended? To disqualify other voices from the outset? Because "prideful, self-righteous trad" is a way to discredit a fellow-believer like me about whom you don't know one single thing.
I expect to be called a racist fascist next. What's the matter, don't you know the litany? I have it chanted at me at the abortion clinic in Bristol, TN:
"Racist, sexist, anti-gay,
Fascist Christians go away."
How can anybody take this seriously?
An inadvertent oversight I'm sure.
1. Are you Catholic?
2 What is the first commandment?
This was a wonderful, heroic act and proves there are still real men in the Church. No bishops among them, of course...
Wow. That looks a lot like "rash judgement" to me, unless you know these guys personally.
Let's do a thought experiment. If someone put a pornographic magazine on the altar in your parish church, would you:
Shut down conversation? Funny, I was trying to do just the opposite, open it up. and I succeeded by daring to post a valid viewpoint that I knew was not the typical FR reaction.
Who needs to know the perpetrators personally? The actions of the 2 men, crimes, speak for themselves.
If it’s theft, then the idols were (A) righfully owned and (B) unjustly taken. But both A and B are very doubtful, if not false. Pagan idols strike me as always evil. But can something that’s always evil be rightfully owned? It seems only goods can be rightfully owned. And were the idols unjustly taken? That’s very hard to believe. If God has the right to his churches never being desecrated, then he certainly has the right to have destroyed anything that desecrates his churches.
Putting pagan idols in a Catholic church in front of the tabernacle was a crime, not against the civil law, but against divine law.
Try again. Try adding new information. That would be interesting.
Tell me why Assisi or kissing a Koran (JPII) or praying in a mosque (BENEDICT) is any better?
At least they are gotten rid of.
Father Goring explains it all very clearly in his video...
Yes, I heard about the small Buddha statue being displayed on the altar at some unfortunate Church, but as I understand it, that was neither foreseen nor approved; and a pledge was made that that would not recur.
Altogether I think it was regrettable but it involved poor planning and naivete rather than apostasy.
As for BXVI praying in a mosque: it is permitted to pray anywhere, whether a massage parlor or a sweat lodge or a Free Republic forum. What isn't permitted is joining in non-Christian prayers, which BXVI did not do: he bowed his head and payed his own prayers, silently--- as any tourist might.
As for JP2 kissing a Koran, I think that was another instance of naivete,not hypocrisy or faithlessness. You may remember (if you're as old as I am) that JP2 customarily kissed everything he was given as a gift: soccer jerseys, balloons, casseroles, flowers, salads, cats, sombreros. I think it was almost a reflex for him to kiss a gifted book. Not a wise reflex; but intended to show a basic graciousness toward the giver, not an act of faith-acceptance of a false ext per se.
In contrast, what Francis is promoting, sponsoring, and sometimes participating in, is a whole nother thing: outright larding-together of all kind of prayers, rites and observances, with everyone joining in a joint religio-ambiguous hugtastic mashup.
That's forbidden, it's sacrilegious, it's deeply disturbing, a disgrace. This lamentable pontificate has crossed all sorts of red lines, and this is in my view was the worst.
To me,that display to pagan gods was nothing short than disgraceful and horrible.
I remember when BXVI when he prayed in a very quiet prayer at Hagia Sophia. When he did it, he was very discreet about it.
STJPII would do the kissing,even he had kissed Tony Melendez after he did a concert on the forehead. He is the one who plays the guitar with his feet. He was at my parish a fees weeks ago in concert.
I don’t wander to FR as much as I used to, but what in the hell is going on? Pagan idols in the Vatican, and someone is mad that they were dumped into the river?
All kidding aside, but this is beyond nuts.
What did Jesus do to the money changers at the Temple?
Was that a sin?
Think carefully.
That's exactly what they don't do. They don't speak for themselves. It was an anonymous act; no individual or group has taken responsibility for it; the video itself was silent. So its exact significance has yet to be explained.
On the other hand, if you want to "see for yourself" what exactly is the significance of the contested figurine, you could compare the ritual in the Vatican Gardens with other rituals of Pachamama, which are not at all hard to find.
She is the most popular of the mythological diosas whose cult still persists strongly in the provinces of northwestern Argentina. Los Toldos, Laguna Blanca, Catamarca, and Jujuy, are important centers of Pachamama worship, which has revived under the influence of coca growers.
It's amusing to see the Vatican Press Office scrambling to say the figurines are not religious, while distributing a video showing a circle of people burning sage incense and prostrating themselves to her, and while displaying multiple copies of her images in Roman churches!
Pachamama is worshiped by giving offerings to the land: food, drinks and coca leaves. The celebration acquires greater relevance in Purmamarca, Tumbaya, Valle Grande and throughout the Puna jujeña. In Tucumán, the town of Amaicha del Valle in the Calchaquí Valleys, is the headquarters of the Pachamama Museum as well as a growing Pachamama tourist industry, pretty much promoted by the local (coca) narcotraficantes.
Should her cult be adopted by the Catholic Church?
Answers will vary. I'm not at all sure your answer would the the same as mine.
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