Posted on 06/11/2019 8:45:31 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
For several decades, I have drawn attention to the Church’s historic persecution of the Jews in Jesus’ name. It is one of the ugliest and longest chapters in Church history, and it cannot be downplayed, forgotten, or ignored. With God’s help, I will continue to call out “Christian” antisemitism wherever I see it today. But I will not ignore Jewish persecution of Christians. It too must be called out.
In the Gospels, Jesus and His followers, all of them Jews, were persecuted by hypocritical Jewish leaders, ultimately leading to the Lord’s death on the cross. And that pattern continued in the Book of Acts, where the Jewish leadership stood in opposition to the message of Jesus the Messiah, sometimes persecuting His Jewish followers to the death (see Acts 7).
Some even stirred up trouble wherever these Messianic Jewish emissaries went to share the good news (see Acts 17), and this continued in the centuries that followed, with some documented cases of Jewish leaders siding with local efforts to persecute Christians.
Of course, no amount of Jewish persecution of Christians can justify the horrors inflicted on the Jewish people by professing Christians, including torture, exile, being forced into ghettos, being burned at the stake, being offered baptism or death, and much more.
And it is an open secret that the Nazis drew on Martin Luther’s antisemitic writings to help enflame German hatred against the Jews.
None of this can be denied, nor should it be denied. To the contrary, we must be ever mindful of this tragic history lest we repeat it in our day.
But, to say it again, when there is Jewish persecution of followers of Jesus, that must be called out as well, especially when it takes place in Israel.
It was a radical Jew who delivered a bomb, disguised as a holiday gift, to the house of Ami Ortiz, the son of Jewish Christian parents. He miraculously survived the bomb blast, which took place in 2008.
But this act, extreme as it was, was not in isolation.
As reported by Time Magazine in 2008, “Messianic Jews, as these Jews who believe in Jesus are called, number just a few in Israel — anywhere between 6,000 and 15,000 — but they provoke hatred all out of proportion to their meager numbers. Many orthodox Jews view them as traitors for joining the Christian faith, which for centuries has persecuted Jews. One Messianic Jew, Tzvi Sadan, a teacher and editor, recalls telling his father, a Holocaust survivor, that he had accepted Jesus as his savior. ‘My dad flipped out. He said that the SS guards in the camp had 'God Is With Us' written on their belts. He told me, “You've joined the enemy.” But he calmed down a bit when he saw my prayer shawl.’” (What Sadan means is that he didn’t stop being a Jew by following Jesus.)
Over the years, Messianic Jews have suffered different levels of persecution within Israel, although none so violent as the bomb attack on Ami Ortiz.
But there have been protests and even vandalism at Messianic Jewish meeting places, attempts to get some believers deported, and various threats and harassments.
Virtually all these acts are carried out by ultra-Orthodox Jews, who view “missionary” activity as diabolical, destructive, and dishonest. As some of these protestors once chanted outside of a large Messianic Jewish gathering I was attending in Israel, “Hitler wanted our bodies. You want our souls!”
Today, as the number of Messianic Jews in Israel has risen to about 30,000 and as the society at large is much more open to these Jewish believers in Jesus, opposition from ultra-Orthodox Jews continues to rise. (For my little run-in with some ultra-Orthodox protesters last year, see here and here.)
As my friend and colleague Ron Cantor reports from Israel (with a video link worth watching), “Believers attending a Messianic concert last week in Jerusalem were accosted by dozens of Orthodox Jewish protestors, who held a violent and chaotic riot for hours, calling the people ‘missionaries’ and ‘Nazis,’ and telling them to get out of Israel. They held up several signs saying, ‘Beware, Missionaries!’ in Hebrew. In Hebrew the world Missionary is a slur. Of course, we are not missionaries, but citizens of Israel.”
Again, I understand how these protesters view us. As a rabbi said to me decades ago, “Our ancestors died rather than believe what you believe. Yet, without coercion or pressure, you not only believe in Jesus, but you try to proselytize as well.”
But, to say this yet again, none of this justifies the actions of these protesters, who were held back by police.
Ron writes that, “Jenya Lempert and his teenage daughter were accosted by swarms of young men blowing whistles at excruciating pitches and linking arms to block the entrance into the concert hall.”
As Lampert told KNI News, “It was a pure act of hatred. They hate us, they were standing against us, they brought their minors as human shields.”
Indeed, Ron explains, “Orthodox protesters have been known to bring teens, who have more liberties than adults to break the law.”
But his response to all this is right on: “It is important to not get angry but pray. At the same time, understand that this is pure fanaticism and brainwashing of children. However, it only represents a tiny minority of Israelis.”
And how should Christians around the world respond to these harassing acts?
First, they should pray for the believers being persecuted, sending them a message that they are not alone.
Second, they should pray for the repentance of the persecutors, believing that there are many Sauls of Tarsus among them.
Third, as friends of Israel who appreciate the liberties that the nation affords its citizens, they should encourage the government to stand with those who are being persecuted to send a message the government will not tolerate this kind of behavior.
All that being said, my personal expectation is that the final generation – whenever that will be – will look a lot like the Gospels and Acts, except that in the end, there will be mass acceptance of Jesus by His own people, rather than mass rejection.
May the Lord turn the hearts of His people Israel!
And just so we’re clear, I may have extreme wariness of the Talmud, but that does NOT mean I’m an anti-Semite. If anything, I’d defend Jews from actual anti-Semites and have no tolerance for anti-Semitism.
Help from whom....Rabbi....?
Sorry, the post was so stupid and ignorant I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you come from a disadvantaged situation.
I didn’t know you were stupid by your own volition.
Look, the Talmud is the oral law, written down. Imperfectly. It conflicts and has issues because it was written down in a hurry to preserve knowledge that was going to be lost.
It is not for the unwary, not for those who don’t have many learned teachers helping them avoid rabbit holes, and not for the unintelligent.
Nonetheless, the Talmud contains almost all of the moral teachings of the Christian testaments, and, indeed, is quoted extensively by Paul and Jesus for theological reasons already noted on this thread.
If you claim to be a Christian and you claim the Talmud is a fraud, you are claiming Jesus and Paul are fraudsters.
So maybe reconsider the trailer park excuse.
Or, stop cutting-and-pasting crap from Stromfront and other Nazi sites.
Greetings_Puny_Humans, for one thing. There’s also Yossi Gurvitz, who last I checked was not only Jewish, but also a student of the Talmud, and also Nicholas Donin, aka the Jewish convert to Catholicism who first made the Church aware of the passages in the Talmud. That said, I may have seen a few quotes by Rabbis confirming as much, though, like here: http://www.chabad.info/index.php?url=article_en&id=26288 also, the Jewish Encyclopedia gives this article as well: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/9443-kol-nidre/ You can also look up the 1994 60 Minutes interview with Rabbi Meir Kahane as well. Also, Rabbi Tzvi Marx admitted in 1994 in Tikkun: A Bi-Monthly Jewish Critique May-June, 1994 that there were two Talmuds issued, one authentic, the other for conning non-Jews, and specifically indicated one difference between the two regarding Maimonides’ teachings: The publically consumed one mentioned that one transgressed the law by killing a human being, the actual one specifically states “Israelite”. There’s plenty more here with full annotations: https://goyimgazette.com/truth-talmud/
It would be in the best interests of Jews to toss out their Talmud, it only harms them more than helps them. Even Jesus condemned it.
I won't pretend that anything I say will disuade you from rejecting Yeshua the Messiah. Before anyone goes off on the use of the name Yeshua, know that it is simply a Aramaic/Hebrew to English translation of Jesus. There is no 'deception' in its use as so many have asserted.
By your statement, you take great pride in the fact that Judaism is older than Christianity and that is one of the reasons Christians are 'irked' at Jews. Frankly, I know of no Christian who feels this way. Possibly, you're reflecting your Jewish pride when you make such an assertion.
Christians embrace both the Torah and the New Testament because they are the Word of God. I can say with virtual certainty that Judaism being older than Christianity is not why Jews irk some Christians.
You've also stated that Christians are irked because Jews reject the gospel. This may be true for a few Christians but from my experience, Christians generally fall into two camps when it comes to Jews. The first camp is, "they are Jews and Jews reject Christ - don't bother with them." The second camp is, "they are Jews and the good news about Jesus the Messiah is to be preached to the Jew first, therefore I will share the gospel and/or my testimony concerning my Christian experience with Jews."
There are nuances that Christians might embrace that you may not understand. One of them is from the New Testament scripture, where Jesus instructs Believers to "not throw your pearls before swine, lest they turn and tear/hurt you". This admonition is concerning anyone hostile to the gospel - not just unbelieving Jews. Jesus also told his disciples to go into cities and teach them about Him and if those places reject them, that they (disciples)are to kick the dirt off their shoes and go to the next city. Essentially what Jesus is saying is that if people reject me, don't further waste your time. In addition to Scripture, Christians 'should' be led by the Holy Spirit (Ruach Hako'desh) who indwells the Christian. Again - no deception here. Ruach Hako'desh is Hebrew for Holy Spirit.
What am I saying, Christians are commanded to evangelize the world, to the Jew first and then the Gentile. However, this there are nuances to this command previously explained.
I bid you sincere Shalom through the Prince of Prince (Sar-shalom). His name is Jesus (Yeshua).
Ooops!! It should have read, "English to Aramaic/Hebrew translation of Jesus."
Jewish Encyclopedia isn’t even from Stormfront or Nazi sites. If anything, it’s written BY Jewish people. Specifically being written Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer. And it was written in 1907, long before Nazism was even a concept, let alone Stormfront. And Jews for Jesus, which also backed that claim up, are Messianic Jews as implied by the title, so they obviously aren’t of Stormfront.
And just as an FYI, if I were that stupid, I would have quoted from the Protocol of the Elders of Zion, which actually IS a forgery. Note that I never mentioned quoted from them at all, because I know that’s a forgery and thus inapplicable.
Also, I think the fact that Nicholas of Donin, Yossi Gurvitz, and Rabbi Tzvi Marx’s own comments on the matter made it very clear that the Talmud is as compatible to Christianity as a fish is to Death Valley.
Also, what Jesus and Paul quoted was the written Torah (which I have absolutely no quarrel with due to it being the Old Testament), not the Talmud, aka, the Oral Torah, the Talmud is the one where they claim that God’s little more than a puppet who can’t do anything without a majority vote from the rabbinic council, or that Jesus is boiling in hot excrement (which, BTW, was verified in the Jewish Encyclopedia), something I certainly doubt Jesus would have approved of, or his father, or certainly Paul. In fact, Jesus if anything condemned the Talmud during his time on Earth, then called the Mishnah, citing it nullified the teachings of the Bible. If the Son of God condemns it, it’s pretty clearly not the Bible or equivalent of it. Read this if you don’t believe me: https://www.christianforums.com/bible/mark/7:1-13/ Also read this: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/what-the-talmud-says-about-jesus.1069951/
Should have read, "Prince of Peace (Sar-shalom)"
I really, really need to do a better job of proof-reading.
Rabbi GPH?
I also cited some actual rabbis who revealed this, like Tzvi Marx for example.
I am pretty sure the Got mit uns (God is with us) was sported by the Wehrmacht, while the SS had Meine Ehre heißt Treue (’My honour is loyalty’)
well, religiously Christian, but ethnically Jewish. Just as there are atheist Jews in New york who are religious not Jewish but ethnically so - incidentally, the Nazis killed folks who were ethnically Jewish - didn’t matter what they believed or didn’t believe in. Nazis were wackadoodles in any case, killing “Aryan” Gypsies, Poles and Russians as well.
Yeshua is the Aramaic name for yehoshua or jesus or ieosus or Jezu. No harm in using it
With the destruction of the 2nd temple, the sects that relied on the temple, the sacrifices and the priests (Cohens) were destroyed as their very core was destroyed. This was reinforced with the Bar kochkba revolt where Judaic peoples slaughtered the pagan gentiles in Cyrene and Cyprus - thereby bringing the wrath of the Romaoi Empire on themselves and getting themselves banned from their Holy Land
2nd temple Judaism died in 69 AD and it was succeeded by 3 sects - or daughter religions
The Sadduccee and Essene sects died out
Net-net -> Christianity and Modern-day Judaism are sister religions both arising out of 2nd Temple Judaism. In fact the Jewish canon was closed well into the Christian era at the Council of Jamnia where Christocentric texts were edited out.
None of this justifies in any way any kind of persecution of one by the other.
I have zero intention of persecuting Jews. Converting them, sure, converting them enmasse, certainly. But not persecution. I don’t even intend to wish them death.
Also, based on Jesus’s comments in Matthew, the Talmud was a bastardization of the Bible, divorced from actual Judaism, let alone Christianity (and quite frankly, I can never forgive the writers of the Talmud for making God the Father, weak and dumb). If you ask me, people should be more outraged at how they treated God the Father than their treatment of Mary and Jesus. Yes, it was disgusting, but it goes with the territory, as even Jesus said he’ll ultimately have enemies. But when they mock and denigrate Jesus’s father, who BTW is pretty much the reason they are a chosen race, I’m sorry, but that’s just unforgivable and something to condemn outright. I can forgive their desecration of Jesus and Mary, but I can never forgive their desecration of God the Father.
Don’t bother with the mouth breather.
He read some stuff on the Internet and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, so he is practically a Rabbi.
Hence why my “one post” rule, which I am going back to now.
I didn’t say you did :) I just put it as a disclaimer for myself
Please could you elaborate on “and quite frankly, I can never forgive the writers of the Talmud for making God the Father, weak and dumb” — I don’t know enough about this
I’m referring to a passage in the Talmud, Bava Metzia 59b, which had a rabbi debating God, and said rabbi outright beating God in said debate, with God even blasphemously stating as much in that passage “He laughed [with joy], he replied, saying, ‘My sons have defeated Me, My sons have defeated Me.’”. The same passage said, and I quote, “Since God already gave the Torah to the Jewish people on Mt. Sinai we no longer pay attention to heavenly voices. God must submit to the decisions of a majority vote of the rabbis.” You can read it in full here:
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/salafi/RabbiDebateGodAndGodAdmitsDefeat.htm
Bear in mind that God, that is to say, God the Father, is omnipotent and omniscient. He literally cannot be beaten in a debate or restrained, forced to submit to a majority vote by ANYONE, let alone mortals such as rabbis. If anything, if one were to even enter a debate with God, it would result in God utterly wiping the floor with his opponent before the first question is even delivered, no winning against him. And when God loses in a debate to a mere mortal, that effectively implies God is dumb, at least dumber than that mortal.
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